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Actually, you can't compare the two. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 15/02/2010 12:04:19 PM
Spanking doesn't work on Egwene - she's lived through months of constant beating. Not only that, but Egwene is as strong as Cadsuane in every way that counts. Even if one ignores that Cadsuane would submit to the Amyrlin, she would find a match for character in Egwene.


Semirhage said she would have been able to resist torture or pain, but it was the humiliation that got to her. Egwene's spankings were an attempt to dissuade her with pain. If Cadsuane took the same approach, she could undermine Egwene. However, I don't see that happening now, that Tam has undercut her moral superiority. I pointed out in my analysis of Egwene's first chapter, that the Reds were not handling her very well if they were trying to truly break her, that they were letting her get away with her mental games that buttressed her self-esteem. The key is not delivering the pain, it is undercutting the self-image that gives structure and purpose to the resistance. Cadsuane learned the lesson in her dealings with Semirhage, but the al'Thors have done it to her in turn. I don't see her getting away with anything towards Egwene, but not because Egwene is so tough. It is because Egwene has that moral superiority and sense of self-image, whereas Cadsuane, last we saw, had it cracked by Rand's dismissal of her and Tam's defiance.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene beetnemesis - 14/02/2010 07:02:20 AM 2753 Views
My sentiments exactly, though I think I'm a little more hopeful than you are. Lord Haart - 14/02/2010 07:58:01 AM 1278 Views
Re: My sentiments exactly, though I think I'm a little more hopeful than you are. orius - 14/02/2010 09:26:47 AM 1088 Views
Just like Elayne treated him so well when she kicked him out of Andor? darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 01:35:32 PM 918 Views
What? We are no longer allowed to make predictions of the coming books unless they're pro-Egwene? Lordling - 14/02/2010 02:22:10 PM 1029 Views
a theory vs. mindlessly attacking a character because you don't like them? darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 07:00:27 PM 1010 Views
It IS kind of ridiculous... but how do YOU think a meeting will go? beetnemesis - 14/02/2010 07:20:08 PM 1022 Views
We all do that darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 08:09:51 PM 1084 Views
Is Egwene going to do what Elayne did when she met Rand after tearing down his banners? Cannoli - 15/02/2010 11:25:27 AM 1186 Views
You just KNOW that rather than compliment all the good he's done.... Kronin al'Sulc - 14/02/2010 03:06:09 PM 870 Views
Personally, I'm rooting for Elaida's Foretelling to be fake Skeeve the Great - 14/02/2010 06:56:41 PM 1171 Views
I thought she DID say "This I Foretell?" beetnemesis - 14/02/2010 07:24:19 PM 1012 Views
Yes she did. Skeeve the Great - 14/02/2010 07:34:43 PM 1210 Views
No way these are fake... she's not BA and she she says she's having a Foretelling darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 08:24:29 PM 1059 Views
Good point. And the "rent in fire and blood" part is almost certain as well. Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 05:13:29 PM 811 Views
Take a sedative Sidious - 14/02/2010 07:52:32 PM 1056 Views
somethings we can agree on! darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 08:12:05 PM 1041 Views
None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping beetnemesis - 14/02/2010 09:01:35 PM 1025 Views
Right cause Nynaeve is always going around telling people how much Mat's changed darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 09:27:02 PM 1031 Views
If you'll recall what Mat did 5 minutes after... beetnemesis - 14/02/2010 11:06:41 PM 1052 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 11:34:49 PM 948 Views
Re: Not really Gerbeaud - 15/02/2010 03:32:06 PM 961 Views
better than Nynaeve who just lies to herself in order to justify her actions! darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 05:53:17 PM 1059 Views
This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 06:09:46 PM 1020 Views
actually it's about all of the main characters darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 06:13:27 PM 973 Views
Re: actually it's about all of the main characters Gerbeaud - 15/02/2010 06:39:25 PM 1063 Views
Well said. Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 07:20:47 PM 1091 Views
Re: Well said. Gerbeaud - 15/02/2010 07:43:08 PM 917 Views
yet even Siuan seems to understand and accept Egwene's response ... odd that you can hold her to darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:55:35 AM 846 Views
Oh, so Elaida's treatment of Sheremin is ok because Sheremin accepted it? Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 06:49:53 AM 1007 Views
how is that a good comparrison? darius_sedai - 18/02/2010 12:27:58 AM 864 Views
Re: how is that a good comparrison? Lord Haart - 18/02/2010 03:30:21 AM 1364 Views
watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:51:09 AM 1054 Views
Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM 1032 Views
Alright enough. Will you read the books already? fionwe1987 - 16/02/2010 08:03:39 AM 1082 Views
Fair points, & I somehow forgot that paragraph. Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 05:34:12 PM 1001 Views
You've forgotten a lot of paragraphs. fionwe1987 - 16/02/2010 07:58:32 PM 1111 Views
The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:34:30 AM 862 Views
Re: The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 07:08:13 AM 969 Views
I'm going to agee with fionwe darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:07:37 PM 924 Views
Same old same old Sidious - 16/02/2010 02:01:12 PM 945 Views
that B*TCH! *NM* darius_sedai - 17/02/2010 03:10:30 AM 677 Views
Re: Same old same old orius - 17/02/2010 09:32:03 AM 1073 Views
Yes, but Egwene's is pride - Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 07:04:25 PM 984 Views
I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none beetnemesis - 15/02/2010 08:52:54 PM 948 Views
Re: I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 10:39:25 PM 975 Views
I feel Galad could be up there, but we see so little of him beetnemesis - 16/02/2010 12:28:44 AM 967 Views
are you being serious? darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 944 Views
Re: are you being serious? Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 06:55:16 AM 1031 Views
Oh, I don't think so. beetnemesis - 16/02/2010 09:12:57 AM 911 Views
Re: This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2010 10:57:27 PM 1018 Views
Re: None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping orius - 15/02/2010 05:08:49 AM 986 Views
It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour Sidious - 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM 932 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 08:41:02 AM 1194 Views
this is hilarious darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 12:45:22 PM 944 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour Sidious - 15/02/2010 03:31:26 PM 1053 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour Cannoli - 15/02/2010 11:57:24 AM 1205 Views
Who says Egwene didn't have a destiny? *NM* darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 12:46:10 PM 584 Views
Me. And I'm way smarter than you. Cannoli - 15/02/2010 01:04:48 PM 1016 Views
darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM 1077 Views
Re: Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM 944 Views
Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:32:45 AM 899 Views
Re: Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 07:09:52 AM 991 Views
You need a re-read my friend darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:14:22 PM 957 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour Sidious - 15/02/2010 03:48:51 PM 1104 Views
Sidious' problem in a nutshell. Cannoli - 15/02/2010 11:27:12 AM 1055 Views
Re: Sidious' problem in a nutshell. Sidious - 15/02/2010 03:14:55 PM 1005 Views
I've never understood the fascination with Lanfear darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 05:52:27 PM 1036 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene Gerbeaud - 14/02/2010 07:56:23 PM 974 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene BlackAdder - 14/02/2010 08:55:58 PM 911 Views
I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 08:59:26 PM 1046 Views
Re: I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then BlackAdder - 14/02/2010 09:24:23 PM 899 Views
I don't think so darius_sedai - 14/02/2010 09:30:41 PM 903 Views
Re: I don't think so Gerbeaud - 15/02/2010 03:45:52 PM 1004 Views
That's pretty much how I see it too darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 05:54:14 PM 934 Views
I understood little sister to be a mild insult, Moiraine being so young and weak in the OP *NM* Lordling - 16/02/2010 08:25:55 PM 664 Views
maybe a touch patronizing? *NM* darius_sedai - 17/02/2010 12:51:25 PM 541 Views
Appears to be, but his thought process implies it's not as simple as him merely looking down on her. *NM* Lord Haart - 17/02/2010 05:07:19 PM 502 Views
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand Yondaime - 14/02/2010 08:05:40 PM 1142 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand lilltempest - 14/02/2010 11:55:40 PM 1050 Views
Cadsuane needs to spank her. Great Lord of Chaos - 15/02/2010 01:31:49 AM 1041 Views
yeah, that's worked so well on her in the past darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 01:48:05 AM 946 Views
It would be a very amusing moment. Great Lord of Chaos - 15/02/2010 03:01:37 AM 922 Views
IMO it would merely be a hypocritical moment of massive proportions darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 04:45:27 AM 901 Views
and a massive failure Sidious - 15/02/2010 06:57:18 AM 1042 Views
What Egwene needs is to be shown that her actions could harm the tower. Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 08:46:30 AM 816 Views
Actually that role is being played by Covril at the Stump *NM* darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 02:13:42 PM 618 Views
If you hate arrogance, you must hate all the main characters in the series Sidious - 15/02/2010 03:21:48 PM 863 Views
But that's the point Cannoli - 15/02/2010 03:26:03 PM 936 Views
Not quite. Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 07:11:56 PM 965 Views
Everyone else is shown to be a bit small minded. Egwene is implied to be Strong And Wise beetnemesis - 15/02/2010 09:23:47 PM 878 Views
When has she ever actually done that? Rand thinks she will, but so far she's done nothing like it! darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 02:08:23 AM 988 Views
I meant that EVERYONE is bargaining, posturing, etc. beetnemesis - 16/02/2010 02:54:29 AM 898 Views
Well miscommunication is one of the major themes of the series darius_sedai - 16/02/2010 01:17:25 PM 899 Views
the most idiotic theme IMO Sidious - 16/02/2010 03:27:26 PM 986 Views
I don't know if the theme itself is idoitic, but I would totally agree that it's gone nowhere! darius_sedai - 17/02/2010 03:16:30 AM 871 Views
Re: Everyone else is shown to be a bit small minded. Egwene is implied to be Strong And Wise Gerbeaud - 18/02/2010 01:19:00 AM 963 Views
Actually, you can't compare the two. Cannoli - 15/02/2010 12:04:19 PM 1018 Views
No, Cannoli has the right of it here. lilltempest - 16/02/2010 06:22:39 PM 1032 Views
Re: No, Cannoli has the right of it here. Lordling - 16/02/2010 06:51:28 PM 1063 Views
Well, all those beatings were in private BlackAdder - 16/02/2010 07:54:00 PM 955 Views
That was the point of the scene in front of the Sitters during the banquet. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 23/02/2010 06:58:50 PM 611 Views
Oh the one where Elaida tried to have her way with Egwene while the Sitters looked away? *NM* BlackAdder - 23/02/2010 10:12:04 PM 634 Views
Yes. Elaida wanted Egwene to be cowed in front of her into obedience, which would erode her support RugbyPlayingAshaman - 23/02/2010 10:18:03 PM 988 Views
I actually think it will go the opposite way. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 16/02/2010 03:44:19 PM 977 Views
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