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You've forgotten a lot of paragraphs. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 16/02/2010 07:58:32 PM
(I don't have the books just now, they're being shipped to my new address).

You've made some good points, and reminded me why I was willing to give Egwene more credit right after I read TGS. However, I would still like to see more of this from her: I definitely share the original poster's apprehensions about her meeting with Rand.

Well, others who haven't missed paragraphs showing Egwene as a sensible and stable person ridicule those worries precisely because the books make it clear that Egwene is the last person Rand needs to worry about. It has been made so clear that Egwene understands what Rand is going through that ignoring it and saying she'll go back to bickering with him as they did when they were kids is absurd.
Even in that paragraph, she judges her relationships in a very cold, professional way, which is prudent I guess but also alienates her from those around her.

No it does not. She was cold and professional because it was a professional issue. She cannot look at it as a matter of friendship or love.
Which is precisely why people like Siuan respect her so much and work so hard to keep her Amyrlin. From Siuan's PoV, we know that Egwene is more casual and friendly around Siuan. They are not just successful as mentor and student, but as friends. And Siuan respects the fact that Egwene cannot always treat her as a friend. She couldn't be a good leader if she did.
It is so immature and childish to expect a woman in Egwene's position to act cuddly and sweet when her subordinates disobey her. Its like a kid thinking their teacher hates them because the teacher punished them for their transgressions.
I do think that you're comparison with Rand & Semirhage is baseless, that scenario just wouldn't happen since you can't flee a Forsaken that easily.

Who said flee the Forsaken? Semirhage was shielded. What if they took her and Rand away from the scene before Rand came to and had a chance to speak to the sul'dam?
Rand would have gone ballistic. He'd have had a right to be angry, but he'd have mishandled it badly. He'd have yelled. He would have lost respect.
And I quoted counter-examples as well (eg with Nynaeve, who is a friend and mentor like Siuan is to Egwene).

Yes, I was wondering why you mentioned that, since Rand told her he's going to use her husband's death, and threatened her with the Choedan Kal!
And ultimately, Egwene has experienced a mere fraction (at best) of the stress and hardship that Rand has, so it's little surprise that his temper is more loosely held than hers.

She seems less damaged because she trained herself to overcome the damage. Or do you think two months as damane, when punishment involved being made to feel like your submerged in boiling water, is a walk in the park?
Rand has never been captured and mistreated for so long a time. He has never lost control over his ability for so long a time. His other issues make him have a worse time, but a lot of them are because unlike Egwene, he has refused to bend to the reality of his situation and make the best of it.
I still think that she should have really probed Siuan on why she was rescued (would again like to double check if she did in the books, but can't), because hearing about the Bloodknives would surely have convinced her that lying there unconscious was suicide. There's sufficient evidence to think that this might have actually been the fulfilment of the prophecy (dream?) regarding Gawyn deciding to kill or, or to save her life, in which case he has done the latter.

But we have no idea that Bloodknives were still there. they may have been killed by the Warders, for all we know. And her loyal Novices would have moved her anyway! Egwene is right that no matter how worried Siuan felt, she shouldn't have let that be the basis fo her decision to kidnap Egwene.
But if people judge Egwene more harshly than Rand, you can't forget that Rand has been through far, far worse than her, and faces far greater challenges.

So? Since when did it become okay to be an ass if you were under stress? Rand may face greater stresses, but her also has greater power at his command. Egwene would never have floundered about like Rand did.
Understand that I'm not saying Rand doesn't have reasons. I'm only saying that those reasons can serve to help us understand, but not excuse, his behavior.
I do tend to agree to some extent with some of Cannoli's points about how easy it was to influence and impress the tower AS.

Rand has had about as easy a time when he's tried to impress anyone. He doesn't try, most of the time, that's all.
If she can reshape them into an organisation not only of strength, but also wisdom and service to Randland, then I'll have more faith in her. As I said elsewhere, I think she's done some pretty good things (be it through luck or with the help of others, she still did them), but as a character her attitude irks me more than that of other characters.

She irks you because you're determined to be irked, and because you conveniently forget situations where she shows how sensible and mature she is. There's absolutely nothing wrong with her attitude. Rand needs to learn from her.
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God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 07:02:20 AM 2693 Views
Just like Elayne treated him so well when she kicked him out of Andor? - 14/02/2010 01:35:32 PM 856 Views
It IS kind of ridiculous... but how do YOU think a meeting will go? - 14/02/2010 07:20:08 PM 941 Views
We all do that - 14/02/2010 08:09:51 PM 1010 Views
You just KNOW that rather than compliment all the good he's done.... - 14/02/2010 03:06:09 PM 805 Views
Personally, I'm rooting for Elaida's Foretelling to be fake - 14/02/2010 06:56:41 PM 1103 Views
I thought she DID say "This I Foretell?" - 14/02/2010 07:24:19 PM 919 Views
Yes she did. - 14/02/2010 07:34:43 PM 1149 Views
Take a sedative - 14/02/2010 07:52:32 PM 982 Views
somethings we can agree on! - 14/02/2010 08:12:05 PM 961 Views
None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping - 14/02/2010 09:01:35 PM 951 Views
Right cause Nynaeve is always going around telling people how much Mat's changed - 14/02/2010 09:27:02 PM 957 Views
If you'll recall what Mat did 5 minutes after... - 14/02/2010 11:06:41 PM 984 Views
Not really - 14/02/2010 11:34:49 PM 875 Views
Re: Not really - 15/02/2010 03:32:06 PM 890 Views
better than Nynaeve who just lies to herself in order to justify her actions! - 15/02/2010 05:53:17 PM 997 Views
This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. - 15/02/2010 06:09:46 PM 914 Views
actually it's about all of the main characters - 15/02/2010 06:13:27 PM 885 Views
Re: actually it's about all of the main characters - 15/02/2010 06:39:25 PM 973 Views
Well said. - 15/02/2010 07:20:47 PM 1013 Views
Re: Well said. - 15/02/2010 07:43:08 PM 844 Views
yet even Siuan seems to understand and accept Egwene's response ... odd that you can hold her to - 16/02/2010 01:55:35 AM 781 Views
Oh, so Elaida's treatment of Sheremin is ok because Sheremin accepted it? - 16/02/2010 06:49:53 AM 941 Views
how is that a good comparrison? - 18/02/2010 12:27:58 AM 794 Views
Re: how is that a good comparrison? - 18/02/2010 03:30:21 AM 1267 Views
watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon - 16/02/2010 01:51:09 AM 982 Views
Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon - 16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM 943 Views
Alright enough. Will you read the books already? - 16/02/2010 08:03:39 AM 997 Views
Fair points, & I somehow forgot that paragraph. - 16/02/2010 05:34:12 PM 909 Views
You've forgotten a lot of paragraphs. - 16/02/2010 07:58:32 PM 1022 Views
The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason - 16/02/2010 01:34:30 AM 787 Views
Re: The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason - 16/02/2010 07:08:13 AM 890 Views
I'm going to agee with fionwe - 16/02/2010 01:07:37 PM 851 Views
Same old same old - 16/02/2010 02:01:12 PM 871 Views
that B*TCH! *NM* - 17/02/2010 03:10:30 AM 648 Views
Re: Same old same old - 17/02/2010 09:32:03 AM 997 Views
Yes, but Egwene's is pride - - 15/02/2010 07:04:25 PM 889 Views
I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none - 15/02/2010 08:52:54 PM 880 Views
Re: I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none - 15/02/2010 10:39:25 PM 908 Views
I feel Galad could be up there, but we see so little of him - 16/02/2010 12:28:44 AM 901 Views
are you being serious? - 16/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 861 Views
Re: are you being serious? - 16/02/2010 06:55:16 AM 964 Views
Oh, I don't think so. - 16/02/2010 09:12:57 AM 850 Views
Re: This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. - 22/02/2010 10:57:27 PM 942 Views
It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM 843 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 08:41:02 AM 1089 Views
this is hilarious - 15/02/2010 12:45:22 PM 860 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 11:57:24 AM 1127 Views
Who says Egwene didn't have a destiny? *NM* - 15/02/2010 12:46:10 PM 530 Views
Me. And I'm way smarter than you. - 15/02/2010 01:04:48 PM 948 Views
- 15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM 1006 Views
Re: - 15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM 870 Views
Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main - 16/02/2010 01:32:45 AM 828 Views
Re: Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main - 16/02/2010 07:09:52 AM 899 Views
You need a re-read my friend - 16/02/2010 01:14:22 PM 900 Views
Sidious' problem in a nutshell. - 15/02/2010 11:27:12 AM 986 Views
Re: Sidious' problem in a nutshell. - 15/02/2010 03:14:55 PM 941 Views
I've never understood the fascination with Lanfear - 15/02/2010 05:52:27 PM 959 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 07:56:23 PM 907 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 08:55:58 PM 851 Views
I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then - 14/02/2010 08:59:26 PM 966 Views
Re: I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then - 14/02/2010 09:24:23 PM 777 Views
I don't think so - 14/02/2010 09:30:41 PM 821 Views
Re: I don't think so - 15/02/2010 03:45:52 PM 917 Views
That's pretty much how I see it too - 15/02/2010 05:54:14 PM 826 Views
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand - 14/02/2010 08:05:40 PM 1049 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand - 14/02/2010 11:55:40 PM 958 Views
Cadsuane needs to spank her. - 15/02/2010 01:31:49 AM 945 Views
yeah, that's worked so well on her in the past - 15/02/2010 01:48:05 AM 874 Views
It would be a very amusing moment. - 15/02/2010 03:01:37 AM 831 Views
IMO it would merely be a hypocritical moment of massive proportions - 15/02/2010 04:45:27 AM 830 Views
and a massive failure - 15/02/2010 06:57:18 AM 976 Views
What Egwene needs is to be shown that her actions could harm the tower. - 15/02/2010 08:46:30 AM 758 Views
Actually that role is being played by Covril at the Stump *NM* - 15/02/2010 02:13:42 PM 590 Views
If you hate arrogance, you must hate all the main characters in the series - 15/02/2010 03:21:48 PM 799 Views
But that's the point - 15/02/2010 03:26:03 PM 875 Views
Not quite. - 15/02/2010 07:11:56 PM 872 Views
Actually, you can't compare the two. - 15/02/2010 12:04:19 PM 954 Views
No, Cannoli has the right of it here. - 16/02/2010 06:22:39 PM 973 Views
Re: No, Cannoli has the right of it here. - 16/02/2010 06:51:28 PM 960 Views
I actually think it will go the opposite way. - 16/02/2010 03:44:19 PM 902 Views

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