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I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach Send a noteboard - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM
I've been a steadfast fan of GRRM since I first began reading aSoIaF years ago, but between aDwD and aFfC I don't know that I really care anymore.

I shouldn't say I don't care, I wouldn't be disappointed if I didn't care, but I feel very underwhelmed by this book after all the years of waiting.

I understand both of these books are supposed to bridge the gap that was always planned to be between the first 3 books and planned last 2, but that's no reason to make them entirely a vessel for transitioning the story from point A to B.

Also, is it just me or is it rather cruel to have such large cliffhangers when it takes so many years in between editions?

He did it with Arya in aFfC, and now he did it again with Jon.

I waited 11 years to read another Jon chapter, and to end it the way he did was just a slap in the face. I don't even care if he died, but some sort of resolution clarifying his death or better hinting at his living would have gone a long way.

Anyways, I'm just venting a bit since I just finished the book the other day. I skipped several chapters for other characters towards the end and I don't feel compelled to read them, but maybe in another decade I'll pick it up again.

Also, to anyone that would say it, I agree GRRM is not my bitch, and neither am I his.

I'm sure I'll read the rest of the books one day, if he finishes them that is, but I'll be waiting until they're all out at this point. I don't have the patience to wait another half decade while giving him the benefit of the doubt.
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6357 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 1900 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1016 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2108 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2086 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1773 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2081 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 1974 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1900 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 898 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 1925 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2229 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2036 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 1894 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1890 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 1921 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 1928 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1070 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 1060 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2094 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2034 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 954 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1875 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1849 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1799 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2131 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1007 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 1972 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2292 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1897 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1831 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1849 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1837 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1091 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1039 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2133 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2052 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1709 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1856 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1696 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1852 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1812 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2052 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2040 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1877 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 1954 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1795 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 1920 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 1969 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1881 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1840 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2247 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2162 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 1980 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1829 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1745 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 1967 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 1984 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1791 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1849 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1870 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 996 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 2014 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 1971 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 1896 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 1961 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 1944 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1824 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2041 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1809 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2025 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1877 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1831 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1833 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 1923 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 1966 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1859 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 2005 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1905 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1880 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 1916 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1889 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 1920 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2041 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1781 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1798 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 981 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 1929 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 1891 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2092 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2213 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 1991 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 971 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1697 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2001 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 1839 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1891 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1810 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1856 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1827 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1875 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 889 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 1933 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 969 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1832 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 1919 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1873 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 1932 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1827 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 1978 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 1909 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2009 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1834 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1878 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1792 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 982 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1830 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1696 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1827 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1852 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1735 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 1907 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1790 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1808 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1805 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1779 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1880 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1819 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1810 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1888 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1763 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1670 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1718 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 1834 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 1860 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1785 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1778 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1830 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1764 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1783 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1649 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1714 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1832 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1792 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1876 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1017 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1674 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1062 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 1975 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 1941 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1890 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1819 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 1906 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1778 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 1927 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1706 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1892 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 1907 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 1906 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1799 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 1910 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2111 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1809 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1857 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1748 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1851 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1819 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1839 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1695 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 962 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1720 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2119 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 1920 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1844 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1833 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2043 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 1944 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 1986 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1762 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1740 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2351 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2121 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1841 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1660 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1851 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1832 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2092 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 1961 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 1928 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 1993 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 1906 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 1933 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 1852 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 1788 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1844 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1772 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1817 Views
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