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I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant Send a noteboard - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM


On a related note, I really like the new character Penny. No major player of course, but really lovable, naive and sweet. I hope she sticks around for a bit and Tyrion can watch out for her. If there is one thing I dislike about the series it is how easily interesting minor characters disappear (Bronn, for example).



Tyrion is depressed and suicidal for most of this book, but her innocence serves as a counterpoint to that downward spiral (like a conscience, as you say). My guess is that she will either die or be seriously injured, which will propel Tyrion's character arc. She isn't that well-developed as a character in my opinion, so I think that is her fate, to serve the development of Tyrion's character. I am totally open to hearing arguments to the contrary though.

The truth is, Penny running into Tyrion is so utterly contrived. Westeros and Essos are giant places. The odds of her running into Tyrion are so low that it is rather unbelievable that she happens to end up exactly where he is. Literally she ends up a few dining tables away from him as opposed to any other place in the entire world. It was already coincidental enough when Jorah just happens to be at the same place that Tyrion is. But now the jousting dwarf as well? Will they run into Tysha next?

Personally I love how it points out Tyrion's hypocrisy when it comes to the sexual attraction thing. For all Tyrions moaning about never being desired by beautiful women because he is a dwarf, he sure does not seem too eager to jump in the sack with Penny, his fellow dwarf, for exactly the same reason. You know if she had been a tall blonde Lyseni he would have been all over her in a minute, no matter how childish and innocent she was.
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6569 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 2125 Views
I have it! *NM* - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1155 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2328 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2304 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1988 Views
It'll be tight. - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2329 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 2114 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 1050 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 2150 Views
Hero of the book? - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2436 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2227 Views
Re: Hero of the book? - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 2106 Views
Re: Hero of the book? - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 2103 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 2149 Views
That's what I thought too. - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 2128 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1230 Views
Asshole of the book? - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2322 Views
Agreed. - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2269 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 2104 Views
Seriously... - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 2084 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 2023 Views
Idiot of the book. - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2348 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1159 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 2218 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 2098 Views
She thinks both - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 2042 Views
So... - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 2069 Views
No, it's him. - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 2077 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1235 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1195 Views
Great Ending - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2336 Views
Really? - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2271 Views
Re: Really? - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1908 Views
Re: Great Ending - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 2065 Views
YES! - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1906 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 2075 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 2051 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2275 Views
Probably not. - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2255 Views
Re: Probably not. - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 2099 Views
I think the two are mixed up. - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 2165 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 2003 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 2147 Views
They didn't. - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 2199 Views
I see - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 2096 Views
Didn't Jon just announced - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 2058 Views
Something I totally missed first time through - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2475 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2382 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 2198 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 2034 Views
Well that brings new meaning - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1959 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 2178 Views
Agreed - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 2202 Views
There's another... - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 2002 Views
There's that... - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 2046 Views
It's worse than that... - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 2079 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 1140 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 2189 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 2134 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 2035 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2267 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 2043 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2276 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 2101 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 2025 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 2060 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 2172 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 2163 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 2051 Views
Yeah, I agree. - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 2092 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 2098 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 2098 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 2125 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2235 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1998 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 2012 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 1129 Views
I think you let him off too easily. - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 2144 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2317 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2464 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 2251 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 1118 Views
Davos is probably my favourite - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1900 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2218 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 2107 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 2054 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 2087 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 2034 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 2107 Views
That could be it. *NM* - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 1028 Views
Stannis - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 2048 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 2118 Views
I highly doubt he's dead - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 2100 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 2157 Views
Yeah... - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 2028 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 2124 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2221 Views
Alternatively.. - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 2043 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2094 Views
None of them. - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 2003 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 1121 Views
Opinion - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 2045 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 2014 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 2065 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1955 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 2130 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 2005 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 2003 Views
Morality stems from god? - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 2019 Views
Of course it does - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1992 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 2113 Views
Perhaps... - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 2023 Views
Its simple... - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 2044 Views
I disagree... - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 2088 Views
Bullshit. - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1971 Views
Re: Bullshit. - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1891 Views
Some thoughts... - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 2018 Views
It's not an objective morality. - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1990 Views
Its not that simple... - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 2057 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1973 Views
Well... - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1995 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1855 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1923 Views
Whats the best new POV - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 2042 Views
Barristan - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 2006 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 2085 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1165 Views
thirded. - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1885 Views
Absolutely *NM* - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1227 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 2183 Views
A bit. - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 2143 Views
- 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 2098 Views
Re: - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 2060 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 2129 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1979 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1906 Views
Re: - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 2113 Views
I like your theory. - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 2146 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 2114 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1990 Views
Eh? - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 2125 Views
This is complicated. - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2334 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 2003 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 2075 Views
Yup. - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1953 Views
Also... - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 2034 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 2024 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 2041 Views
Allow me - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1899 Views
thanks *NM* - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 1108 Views
I thought this was pretty clear - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1933 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2337 Views
Interesting idea. - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 2119 Views
Re: Interesting idea. - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 2058 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 2045 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2257 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 2172 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 2242 Views
Okay. I suck. - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1982 Views
Let me rephrase that... - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1974 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2573 Views
Hmm - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2466 Views
you are correct - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 2043 Views
Yup. - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1907 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 2053 Views
I'm uncertain about that - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 2030 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2308 Views
Where did he say that? - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 2168 Views
In interviews - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 2133 Views
A little thought about Jon... - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 2194 Views
Excellent point. - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 2107 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 2157 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 2228 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 2059 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1977 Views
Jon? - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 2033 Views

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