Active Users:414 Time:16/06/2025 08:03:05 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Re: DomA Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM
He has to be coming back as Azhor Azhai reborn. However, I think Azhai and the Prince Who Was Promised are not the same thing; Dany is the latter and Jon the former (and they may well be two sides of the same coin, a sort of messiah/anti-messiah thing). Azhai appears to be a much darker-aspected figure. I think Jon will then forge his own version of Lightbringer by sacrificing the thing he loves the most (probably Ghost).


If Jon isn't AA, Martin really went out of his way to make it appear so, and really not far from where Melisandre could catch up on all the signs (bleeding star etc.) and be the instrument to bring back Jon from death/the brink of death - which could be what's it's about. And he has a sword to turn into a new Lightbringer, at Melisandre's guidance, and that she was right should finish to convince him he must listen to her. It doesn't mean Melisandre's right about AA and a rebirth in the first place, though.

Not sure about Jon/Dany being the two sides of the same coin analogy. Too many signs have pointed to a triad, and in the new book Martin is having even more fun than in AFFC about the "third dragon" (first with the Quentyn red-herring, then with the new Targaryen prince "ressurecting" from the dead).

It could be said and has been said that Dany has been reborn in the fire as the Mother of Dragons under the bleeding star.

Young Griff was dead to all and now "reborn" under his true identity, also heralded by the comet.

And now there's Jon and the signs for Melisandre to read.

So the prophecy(ies) as such may have been fulfilled for all three of them. Aemon's mumblings in AFFC suggest the signs are valid for all three (if Griff really is the third).

I think Melisandre's version that the PWWP is Azor Azhai reborn with Lightbringer might be corrupted/mythical or partial only. She (and apparently the other priests of R'hllor) doesn't know the dragon has not one but three heads.
Reply to message
A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6431 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 1980 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1081 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2183 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2158 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1846 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2152 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 2054 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1979 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 966 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 2002 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2297 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2110 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 1972 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1965 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 1995 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 2003 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1145 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 1126 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2168 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2107 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 1023 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1947 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1946 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1889 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2205 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1078 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 2060 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2371 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1974 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1903 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1921 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1912 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1159 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1110 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2209 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2138 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1781 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1934 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1773 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1929 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1904 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2128 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2113 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1952 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 2031 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1871 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 2008 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 2044 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1959 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1919 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2322 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2236 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 2052 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1906 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1821 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 2039 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 2062 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1875 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1924 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1946 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 1062 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 2094 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 2045 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 1992 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 2039 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 2022 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1901 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2115 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1882 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2100 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1953 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1908 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1908 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 2000 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 2039 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1930 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 2084 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1977 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1955 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 1990 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1964 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 1998 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2112 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1863 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1871 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 1047 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 1999 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 1962 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2168 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2292 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 2073 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 1038 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1772 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2081 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 1918 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1964 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1883 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1946 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1898 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1955 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 957 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 2011 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 1034 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1913 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 1994 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1947 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 2007 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1910 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 2058 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 1985 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2084 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1910 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1968 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1868 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 1048 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1904 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1771 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1902 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1930 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1812 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 1984 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1867 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1885 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1883 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1857 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1950 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1895 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1898 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1967 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1841 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1746 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1791 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 1910 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 1935 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1861 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1858 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1909 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1842 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1857 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1724 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1790 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1908 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1867 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1951 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1084 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1750 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1165 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 2051 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 2017 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1964 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1896 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 1984 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1854 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 2003 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1785 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1971 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 1981 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 1978 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1872 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 1983 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2185 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1885 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1931 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1820 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1923 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1892 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1914 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1768 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 1033 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1799 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2195 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 1993 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1924 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1913 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2120 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 2023 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 2075 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1840 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1816 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2427 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2342 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1916 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1733 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1927 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1902 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2166 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 2042 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 1997 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 2063 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 1981 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 2010 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 2065 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 1864 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1918 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1847 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1893 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes