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Re: Interesting idea. Jessie Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM
I say he is not innocent and he is one of Dany's three betrayals. I know this is not a rational explanation on why he is one of the three betrayals, but in the Slave Pit Dany's chapter where she is almost poisoned her hair catches on fire. (This fact is not mentioned during the Drogon confrontation but afterwards in a Barristan chapter and several times in the last chapter for Dany.)


I think the Green Grace is the Harpy, but it's unclear if Hizdahr is a stooge or a willing conspirator. The idea that Dany's hair burns when she is betrayed is an interesting one, though it may simply be down to the circumstances of there being a fire present.


My thoughts as well. I didn't trust the Green Grace at all, and Hizdahr seemed too likely and obvious of a candidate.

when you see only the darkness, know the light will soon return
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6642 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 2187 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1187 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2384 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2338 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 2047 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2378 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 2270 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 2160 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 1075 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 2202 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2490 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2278 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 2162 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 2152 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 2223 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 2185 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1255 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 1259 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2376 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2322 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 1123 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 2162 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 2141 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 2082 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2407 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1182 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 2272 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2551 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 2156 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 2086 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 2128 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 2139 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1258 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1221 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2379 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2328 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1964 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 2132 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1947 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 2126 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 2099 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2337 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2298 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 2151 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 2221 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 2066 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 2202 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 2245 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 2157 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 2099 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2527 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2430 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 2260 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 2082 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 2024 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 2239 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 2259 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 2057 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 2092 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 2138 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 1164 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 2317 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 2240 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 2179 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 2249 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 2228 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 2094 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2335 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 2108 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2334 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 2176 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 2065 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 2112 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 2251 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 2220 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 2113 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 2301 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 2151 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 2145 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 2166 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 2158 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 2205 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2312 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 2078 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 2060 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 1148 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 2210 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 2158 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2385 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2517 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 2303 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 1144 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1951 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2275 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 2105 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 2154 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 2105 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 2124 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 2102 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 2166 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 1053 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 2182 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 1112 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 2107 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 2170 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 2155 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 2201 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 2080 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 2240 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 2188 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2267 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 2100 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2159 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 2058 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 1148 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 2095 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1966 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 2075 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 2121 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 2007 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 2189 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 2068 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 2064 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 2067 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 2050 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 2171 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 2074 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 2091 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 2138 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 2015 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1936 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1966 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 2103 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 2135 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 2098 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 2053 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 2109 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 2021 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 2043 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1903 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1972 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 2104 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 2063 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 2157 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1191 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1953 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1254 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 2237 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 2198 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 2155 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 2133 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 2176 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 2035 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 2187 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1951 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 2177 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 2205 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 2169 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 2040 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 2181 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2399 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 2068 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 2157 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 2008 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 2084 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 2089 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 2085 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1972 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 1133 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1992 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2389 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 2175 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 2105 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 2097 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2308 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 2260 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 2284 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 2047 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 2027 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2630 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2520 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 2108 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1974 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 2099 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 2082 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2361 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 2231 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 2176 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 2241 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 2179 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 2206 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 2281 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 2063 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 2116 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 2030 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 2087 Views
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