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For pure enjoyment, here's a non math version. Vivien Send a noteboard - 21/09/2011 10:10:40 PM
Yes absolutely- it's fun and it's only 100% true as long as every single step is perfectly correct. I really like reading passages of Simone de Beauvoir's "The Second Sex" because she postulates something then she goes from A to B to C and every single step along the way is reasonable but before you know it she's proved something that seems incredible. It's really fun to back track.

And it's not just that sometimes we go beyond facts and then reach opinion, I think that in our daily lives it's even more common that we *start* with the opinions. There's no logic in a vacuum, you have to start somewhere. Even with the geometry proofs, there's a set of givens that you have.Our starting points are different because of our opinions and experiences, etc. Perhaps we then try to untagle ourselves with reason and logic and evidence, and sometimes that will allow paths to converge, and sometimes not. They may even grow further apart.


Back when I was doing high school math, I would do the geometry proofs just for fun. There was something great about piecing together the puzzle and being forced to follow every step, every rule that built on top of the rule before it, leading you to the inevitable and correct conclusion.

I had never thought of geometry proofs in relation to common sense in that manner before. Starting from basic principles and adding only true principles on top until you reach an answer, or until you reach a point where there is no definitely true principle to guide you on, in which case you are now at the point where subjective thinking takes over and everything is an opinion, sometimes educated and sometimes not.
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We really need to have Logic as a course in high schools. Tom - 20/09/2011 06:50:36 AM 1424 Views
Logic classes would be good in schools. Timthetrolloc - 20/09/2011 10:23:56 AM 960 Views
Ugh. Ghavrel - 20/09/2011 11:30:59 AM 1002 Views
Re: Ugh. Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:03:31 AM 927 Views
Something tells me that no matter who answered your questions you wouldn't believe anyway. everynametaken - 21/09/2011 02:16:52 AM 916 Views
this is a controlled demolition Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:20:09 AM 1043 Views
That is an incredibly stupid argument. Tom - 21/09/2011 01:12:38 AM 976 Views
I've seen controlled demolitions in person. They happen in the opposite order of the WTC collapses. Ghavrel - 21/09/2011 03:54:35 AM 1002 Views
Asking questions is never wrong. ironclad - 20/09/2011 12:22:22 PM 884 Views
Re: Asking questions is never wrong. Timthetrolloc - 20/09/2011 11:57:04 PM 1054 Views
Agreed Camilla - 20/09/2011 01:09:40 PM 923 Views
I've long advocated this for the reasons Tom states as well as others. Joel - 21/09/2011 06:49:28 AM 860 Views
I don't know if the Internet is degrading skills, or just giving stupid people a voice beetnemesis - 20/09/2011 02:33:24 PM 994 Views
There is compelling evidence that 9/11 was not what it seemed Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 03:06:58 PM 983 Views
No, there is not. Tom - 20/09/2011 03:19:43 PM 1090 Views
Well, the circumstances were odd at least Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 03:26:40 PM 956 Views
As far as conspiracies go ... Nate - 20/09/2011 03:36:35 PM 1054 Views
what would be the motive for the US doing something that stupid? random thoughts - 20/09/2011 04:40:31 PM 860 Views
I'm not sure you got my gist. Nate - 20/09/2011 04:46:28 PM 909 Views
I don't think there is any evidience that Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9-11 random thoughts - 20/09/2011 05:21:09 PM 929 Views
Um. Well, sure, that would be true. If you ignored all the evidence. Nate - 20/09/2011 05:45:23 PM 997 Views
Well if you had argued that some Bush advisers wanted to attack Iraq I would have agreed random thoughts - 20/09/2011 06:35:07 PM 965 Views
But that's what I DID argue. Nate - 20/09/2011 06:47:17 PM 947 Views
sorry but you need to be more precise in your terms random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:37:36 PM 995 Views
I've always seen them as separate. Nate - 21/09/2011 03:33:14 PM 814 Views
and that is why I decided to drop it random thoughts - 21/09/2011 04:07:02 PM 978 Views
Heh. Nate - 21/09/2011 04:15:34 PM 923 Views
And the explicit statement of a Bush Cabinet member. Joel - 21/09/2011 06:59:47 AM 1044 Views
I'm still annoyed. Nate - 21/09/2011 01:58:38 PM 849 Views
I stopped responfding when suddenly realized I didn't want to be in a Bush Iraq war debate random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:53:29 PM 854 Views
Admitting error is a sign of weakness; Don Draper said so. Joel - 21/09/2011 05:37:31 PM 889 Views
and I pointed that it was was just continuin gthe Clinton policy random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:30:13 PM 936 Views
Even if that were true, it would still be flip flopping on a central Bush platform plank. Joel - 21/09/2011 05:45:10 PM 978 Views
In addition: Nate - 20/09/2011 05:57:33 PM 1057 Views
sorry but that is nothing more than a simple statement of fact random thoughts - 20/09/2011 06:40:51 PM 987 Views
This is very frustrating. Nate - 20/09/2011 07:05:48 PM 939 Views
For the war on terror? Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 04:49:12 PM 992 Views
And what was the war on terror supposed to accomplish? random thoughts - 20/09/2011 05:12:11 PM 933 Views
That contradicts the evidence. Tom - 20/09/2011 06:15:48 PM 960 Views
Excuse me? Macharius - 20/09/2011 08:22:21 PM 1025 Views
Huh? Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 08:57:14 PM 996 Views
the problem with any other theory is the make no sense random thoughts - 20/09/2011 04:36:02 PM 928 Views
Contemplate this.... Jeordam - 20/09/2011 04:27:52 PM 951 Views
You just did not go Star Trek on me Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 04:44:28 PM 970 Views
And how did you know... Jeordam - 20/09/2011 05:17:10 PM 1039 Views
Re: And how did you know... Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:16:26 AM 1033 Views
You should watch the pilot episode of the X-Files spin-off series The Lone Gunmen. TaskmasterJack - 20/09/2011 08:19:15 PM 987 Views
humans tend to be very bad at critical thinking random thoughts - 20/09/2011 04:58:43 PM 891 Views
Won't help Praziquantel - 20/09/2011 08:15:36 PM 973 Views
Make 'em all take debate. nossy - 20/09/2011 08:23:37 PM 922 Views
Would madam like a cane? Elaine - 20/09/2011 09:19:53 PM 1059 Views
Maybe a walker with tennis balls on the bottom. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/09/2011 10:33:39 PM 440 Views
Do you think it would help? aerocontrols - 21/09/2011 12:09:42 AM 918 Views
Re: We really need to have Logic as a course in high schools. Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:10:08 AM 953 Views
Yeah, and the 100,000 pounds of sudden extra weight slammed into the towers at 400 mph...? Tom - 21/09/2011 01:05:18 AM 922 Views
Not actually the best example Isaac - 21/09/2011 01:56:03 AM 912 Views
what about the hole it cut into the frame of the building? random thoughts - 21/09/2011 03:23:07 AM 932 Views
Wouldn't make much difference Isaac - 21/09/2011 04:08:27 AM 943 Views
OK thanks *NM* random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:55:52 PM 487 Views
The fireproofing was scraped off the steel by the crash, so the beams melted. Aeryn - 21/09/2011 07:35:08 PM 1133 Views
Re: Yeah, and the 100,000 pounds of sudden extra weight slammed into the towers at 400 mph...? Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 03:02:19 AM 965 Views
But how else would they fall down? Aeryn - 21/09/2011 07:42:27 PM 831 Views
You would force Euler on to the masses? Two Wongs - 21/09/2011 03:21:40 PM 987 Views
You could still argue. Vivien - 21/09/2011 04:06:51 PM 865 Views
I didn't mean to imply that it is no fun to argue with a like-minded person Two Wongs - 21/09/2011 04:15:47 PM 883 Views
Eh, nobody uses pure logic all of the time anyway. Vivien - 21/09/2011 10:43:51 PM 952 Views
Or they could just do more math. Cold, hard, beautiful math. Vivien - 21/09/2011 04:01:05 PM 878 Views
I love geometry proofs. Nate - 21/09/2011 04:10:57 PM 1003 Views
Me too <3 proofs! *NM* LaSombra - 21/09/2011 07:55:38 PM 473 Views
For pure enjoyment, here's a non math version. Vivien - 21/09/2011 10:10:40 PM 912 Views
+1 *NM* Isaac - 21/09/2011 07:59:57 PM 412 Views
Now we are talking... Everyone can benefit from some basic Euclid. jh - 21/09/2011 08:32:17 PM 1140 Views
Ha. Ha. Vivien - 21/09/2011 09:56:38 PM 933 Views
As a follower of Cthulhu, I strongly disagree. Tom - 21/09/2011 11:13:55 PM 1120 Views
I really and truly appreciate your love of pure math for math's sake, but... Tom - 21/09/2011 11:10:03 PM 908 Views
Well, it requires a lot more science to really dispute things than HS can give someone Isaac - 21/09/2011 11:28:29 PM 928 Views
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