Won't someone please think of the children?!
Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM
Abstinence-only "sex ed" doesn't work. Teenagers are going to have sex no matter what they're told by adults, so the choice is to give them good information or not. Giving them no information about birth control (or false information, as many abstinence-only programs have been found to do) just leaves them unprepared. That generally affects them through their adult years, as well.
(Sexual consent laws are not nearly as uniform as you claim, either. Laws defining appropriate age ranges for sexual conduct for minors, e.g. it's okay for a 16-year-old to have sex with a 17-year-old but not a 40-year-old, are not uncommon. This is utterly tangential to the actual point, though.)
If the "pro-life" movement realistically wanted to eliminate abortion, they would fund research into improving things like Implanon so that everyone would get an implant when they turned X (12, 14, 16, whatever) and no one could get pregnant or get someone pregnant unintentionally. That is a solution that actually acknowledges reality and works within it. Railing against Planned Parenthood and "marching for life" are not solutions.
(The BBC article you cite about failures of Implanon does not contradict my statement that it has a sub-1% failure rate. (600+1600)/4100000 = 0.05%. No other birth control on the market does that well. Yes, it has side effects; all hormonal treatments do. Also, the implantation problem has been corrected with the updated version, called Nexplanon.)
The "pro-life" movement ultimately stems from the feeling, generally religiously inspired, that pregnancy must be a necessary consequence of sex. The idea that we could separate the two is what most of the movement actually opposes. Women who have sex out of wedlock should be punished by having to carry the pregnancy to term. Those are the oppressive sexual mores to which I referred. (Interpreting that as "locking up your kids"-style oppression was not a high point of your reply.)
If they really felt that a single-celled zygote is morally equivalent to a person and abortion is murder, they would not act they way they do. Murder is a more important issue than birth control or teenage sex. Also, most pregnancies end in miscarriage, without the woman even knowing she was pregnant; a "pro-lifer" ought to see this as an epidemic. I have almost never encountered any who realize this, let alone try to do anything about it. (Every once in a while, some state legislator ends up trying to criminalize miscarriages, and quickly gets eaten alive in the public eye.)
I'll try to keep an eye out for your NB.
(Sexual consent laws are not nearly as uniform as you claim, either. Laws defining appropriate age ranges for sexual conduct for minors, e.g. it's okay for a 16-year-old to have sex with a 17-year-old but not a 40-year-old, are not uncommon. This is utterly tangential to the actual point, though.)
If the "pro-life" movement realistically wanted to eliminate abortion, they would fund research into improving things like Implanon so that everyone would get an implant when they turned X (12, 14, 16, whatever) and no one could get pregnant or get someone pregnant unintentionally. That is a solution that actually acknowledges reality and works within it. Railing against Planned Parenthood and "marching for life" are not solutions.
(The BBC article you cite about failures of Implanon does not contradict my statement that it has a sub-1% failure rate. (600+1600)/4100000 = 0.05%. No other birth control on the market does that well. Yes, it has side effects; all hormonal treatments do. Also, the implantation problem has been corrected with the updated version, called Nexplanon.)
The "pro-life" movement ultimately stems from the feeling, generally religiously inspired, that pregnancy must be a necessary consequence of sex. The idea that we could separate the two is what most of the movement actually opposes. Women who have sex out of wedlock should be punished by having to carry the pregnancy to term. Those are the oppressive sexual mores to which I referred. (Interpreting that as "locking up your kids"-style oppression was not a high point of your reply.)
If they really felt that a single-celled zygote is morally equivalent to a person and abortion is murder, they would not act they way they do. Murder is a more important issue than birth control or teenage sex. Also, most pregnancies end in miscarriage, without the woman even knowing she was pregnant; a "pro-lifer" ought to see this as an epidemic. I have almost never encountered any who realize this, let alone try to do anything about it. (Every once in a while, some state legislator ends up trying to criminalize miscarriages, and quickly gets eaten alive in the public eye.)
I'll try to keep an eye out for your NB.
Susan G. Komen cuts funds to Planned Parenthood. (with updated edit)
- 02/02/2012 04:32:27 PM
2467 Views
The most annoying part is in the sixth paragraph- abortions are only a small part of their thing
- 02/02/2012 05:08:07 PM
1342 Views
I agree.
- 02/02/2012 05:20:17 PM
1218 Views
Actually, there are longer-acting forms of birth control than the pill.
- 03/02/2012 12:37:42 AM
1216 Views
I do think that preventing abortions is their primary goal.
- 03/02/2012 01:08:05 AM
1180 Views
If they don't see that link, it's because they haven't looked.
- 03/02/2012 02:42:42 AM
1294 Views
That is a little unfair.
- 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM
1525 Views
Won't someone please think of the children?!
- 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM
1272 Views
I think you're leaving out some important points.
- 04/02/2012 03:40:48 PM
1191 Views
Ah, the good ol' silent majority.
- 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM
1194 Views
So which moron is feeding you this crap?
- 04/02/2012 10:27:15 PM
1233 Views
It worries me when we think alike....
- 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM
1286 Views
- 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM
1286 Views
Brain waves at 8 weeks are a myth.
- 05/02/2012 08:46:06 PM
1359 Views
"brain function... appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks' gestation."
- 05/02/2012 10:42:35 PM
1273 Views
Oh please.
- 05/02/2012 11:13:50 PM
1220 Views
Re: Oh please yourself.
- 06/02/2012 09:15:26 PM
1090 Views
Quite a telling reply.
- 07/02/2012 04:38:20 AM
1202 Views
Re: I quite agree.
- 08/02/2012 06:03:23 PM
1392 Views
You're taking an issue of objective facts and treating it like a day of playground gossip.
- 09/02/2012 03:47:06 AM
1217 Views
No, your source, in which there is very little that is objective, did that for me.
- 11/02/2012 02:59:45 AM
1267 Views
I see you have continued to provide no factual arguments.
- 14/02/2012 04:53:28 AM
1535 Views
I presented factual rebuttals.
- 19/02/2012 01:56:45 AM
1291 Views
You continue to miss the point.
- 23/02/2012 10:22:24 PM
1385 Views
No, I got the point: You expect me to accept a heavily biased, partisan and combative "source."
- 07/03/2012 01:47:37 AM
1311 Views
The claim of brain waves at 8 weeks is still unsupported by evidence, i.e. a myth.
- 15/03/2012 09:16:14 PM
1368 Views
Well, yes.
- 04/02/2012 11:14:47 PM
1325 Views
A silent majority may as well not exist, if it has no tangible effects.
- 05/02/2012 12:54:34 AM
1199 Views
You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect.
- 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM
1310 Views
Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case.
- 04/02/2012 08:25:49 PM
1372 Views
Re: Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case.
- 05/02/2012 02:11:28 AM
1227 Views
If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree.
- 05/02/2012 08:42:17 AM
1056 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree.
- 05/02/2012 10:04:59 PM
1249 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree.
- 06/02/2012 08:57:38 PM
1178 Views
I'm done discussing my use of the term "oppression." The Tim Ryan stuff is interesting, though.
- 07/02/2012 05:37:05 AM
1315 Views
Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it.
- 08/02/2012 06:01:32 PM
1428 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it.
- 09/02/2012 05:30:58 AM
1265 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it.
- 11/02/2012 02:58:00 AM
1295 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it.
- 14/02/2012 04:29:08 AM
1379 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it.
- 19/02/2012 01:54:30 AM
1264 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it.
- 23/02/2012 10:59:32 PM
1590 Views
There are problems with the implants
- 03/02/2012 01:42:55 AM
1260 Views
Any form of birth control doesn't work for everyone, though.
- 03/02/2012 02:37:00 AM
1268 Views
Oh yes, I totally agree! My point is just that there are some barriers to handing out implants
*NM*
- 03/02/2012 03:38:05 AM
593 Views
*NM*
- 03/02/2012 03:38:05 AM
593 Views
What on earth does that have to do with anything?
- 03/02/2012 01:47:42 AM
1168 Views
I was actually kinda with you until you closed with that anathema I condemned in my response to rt.
- 03/02/2012 01:39:06 PM
1224 Views
I agree that they have made Beast Cancer a cult but splitting with PP is just smart
- 02/02/2012 05:39:49 PM
1415 Views
I agree.
- 02/02/2012 06:00:17 PM
1189 Views
yes she is going to have to piss off one group or the other
- 02/02/2012 06:12:31 PM
1245 Views
Right
- 02/02/2012 06:24:14 PM
1284 Views
it is a judgment call and I hope her decision is based on more than my guesses
- 02/02/2012 06:53:50 PM
1149 Views
Do you see a way Komen could have avoided pissing off one side?
- 02/02/2012 06:55:36 PM
1205 Views
No, I don't. I don't believe I said that?
- 02/02/2012 07:53:50 PM
1127 Views
You didn't; I inferred it from the way you phrased that ("if she HAS to..."). Sorry.
- 02/02/2012 08:06:11 PM
1252 Views
I know I'm not always clear.
- 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM
1228 Views
- 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM
1228 Views
Just curious...
- 02/02/2012 10:07:49 PM
1200 Views
Not at all.
- 02/02/2012 10:24:19 PM
1246 Views
Not at all?
- 02/02/2012 10:32:31 PM
1163 Views
No.
- 02/02/2012 10:47:04 PM
1098 Views
My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes
- 02/02/2012 11:17:24 PM
1190 Views
Re: My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes
- 03/02/2012 12:08:01 AM
1197 Views
wow that may be the worst advice I had in weeks
- 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM
1178 Views
- 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM
1178 Views
Ooor, the best.
- 03/02/2012 12:25:56 AM
1167 Views
ok now you are just being mean *NM*
- 03/02/2012 12:46:12 AM
704 Views
The thread was going too well - I thought we needed the meanness. *NM*
- 03/02/2012 11:30:39 AM
650 Views
Never having heard of any of those except PP, my opinion may not be the most relevant...
- 02/02/2012 08:32:48 PM
1263 Views
You don't know stuff.
- 02/02/2012 08:43:38 PM
1251 Views
I know the stuff that matters.
- 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM
1145 Views
- 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM
1145 Views
they may also be a afraid that PP will go the way of ACORN
- 02/02/2012 11:04:16 PM
1289 Views
"Accused" of = unfounded slander.
- 03/02/2012 12:13:30 AM
1330 Views
did you notice I called tactic disgusting? That doesn't mean it isn't effective
- 03/02/2012 12:45:10 AM
1252 Views
The investigation by Congress is well-known to be specious. It's the House GOP abusing their power. *NM*
- 03/02/2012 12:41:58 AM
736 Views
This is so foreign a debate for me
- 02/02/2012 10:16:15 PM
1276 Views
Re: stuff
- 03/02/2012 09:18:53 AM
1144 Views
I'm sorry, but what're we talking about when we're talking about "cancer"
- 03/02/2012 12:49:34 PM
1201 Views
Obviously not adenocarcinoma, no.
- 04/02/2012 07:36:06 AM
1283 Views
I"m not that fussed. I'm just generally leary of research that has results like that
- 04/02/2012 08:35:04 PM
1132 Views
Once I looked up Nancy Brinker at Wikipedia it all made sense.
- 02/02/2012 10:54:34 PM
1264 Views
Re: Once I looked up Nancy Brinker at Wikipedia it all made sense.
- 02/02/2012 11:03:32 PM
1138 Views
After a little more digging I have to say you are probably right.
- 03/02/2012 02:23:14 AM
1078 Views
They restored funding incidentally
- 03/02/2012 05:43:47 PM
1165 Views
Unless I've missed it
- 03/02/2012 05:56:15 PM
1217 Views
You must have missed it then
- 03/02/2012 07:07:13 PM
1169 Views
If you're referring to Cannoli
- 03/02/2012 07:19:25 PM
1322 Views
Multiple was not an accidental choice of words
- 03/02/2012 11:46:30 PM
1194 Views
Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you.
- 04/02/2012 12:41:42 AM
1230 Views
Re: Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you.
- 04/02/2012 01:53:25 AM
1428 Views
well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision
- 03/02/2012 06:24:14 PM
1335 Views
Re: well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision
- 03/02/2012 06:29:34 PM
1112 Views
I do wonder a bit which lawmakers Fox thinks "pressured" Komen.
- 03/02/2012 08:29:50 PM
1150 Views
Beyond the 26 senators, I'd imagine rumor of the more reliable sort
- 03/02/2012 08:46:31 PM
1218 Views
Well, if they wrote AS senators rather than friends of Nancy Brinker, that probably qualifies.
- 03/02/2012 10:24:11 PM
1260 Views
Judge for yourself
- 04/02/2012 12:01:06 AM
1279 Views
Well, a public letter makes whether they signed it "Sen. so-and-so" irrelevant: It is political.
- 04/02/2012 04:07:20 PM
1189 Views
are you trying to disprove the study you posted?
- 03/02/2012 09:20:12 PM
1321 Views
To me, it depends on the nature of the contact, which I have not dug enough to discover.
- 03/02/2012 10:43:45 PM
1156 Views
you admit you have no incite into what happened
- 04/02/2012 04:27:17 AM
1231 Views
Actually, it looks like Komens new VP (and former GOP GA gubernatorial candidate) had the incite.
- 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM
1259 Views
- 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM
1259 Views
educated guess don't work when you are tinfoil hat wearing kool-aid drinker
- 04/02/2012 09:33:49 PM
1184 Views


*NM*