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Wow, talk about proving my point! Cannoli Send a noteboard - 12/03/2010 11:04:34 PM
Exactly who stood on what principles, here? The student, with help from the ACLU, stood for her right to go to a party with another girl and wear a tux while she was there. The School Board canceled, rather than deal with the issues.
In other words, if YOU disagree with the position, it is not a principle.

So what you are implying here is that heterosexual couples will give up marriage rather than share the institution with homosexuals?
And you can't make a rational analogy. This would only fit if we were discussing a case where the students had walked out on a prom, rather than attend with a same-sex couple. No, I am talking about society and institutions revoking marital privileges rather than extend them equally to same-sex (or multiple) partnerships.

If what she was saying is that she couldn't imagine that the school board would cancel an entire Prom rather than defend it's ruling, then I have to admit, I'd have agreed with her. The School Board isn't defending anything here. It is waffling, unwilling to either justify or change its previous ruling.
Why should they indulge in expensive court challenges when all they have to do is cancel the event? They still win, because they don't have to host the same-sex couple. Only in a child's head is getting to say "I win" more important than getting the end result. This was in no way about contests, for either party. The student wants X the school does not want to give her X. They win. The fact that everyone else is deprived of Y is incidental. No one directly involved cares about someone ruling on whether or not the kid is entitled to what she wants as much as the actual facts of whether or not she gets it.

Nice tangent. Lesbian girl wants to go to prom with her girlfriend= Liberals stupid about business.
It would be a tangent, if I cared about some rug-munching child who knows her gender is inferior. My point as alluded in the TITLE of my freaking post, is about liberals and their crusades. But there's your liberal myopia - the discussion is not on the topic YOU want to discuss, therefore it is a "tangent" regardless of the fact that I am staying on MY point. You, being liberally blind, simply cannot understand my point, so you think I am on a tangent. Hint, hint: It's not about you.

Yes. Liberals commit the intolerable sin of not only working against institutionalized prejudice, but also continuing to call people on their personal prejudice as well.
Except that is not what I said - I said that identifying people's preferences and forcing them to act against those preferences without being able to see that this could cause those people to react in a way you don't like is an apparently all too common failing. After all, the description you give is what everyone does against things they don't like. I am talking about your habit of compelling others to behave in a certain way without being able to logically infer the results your compulsion will have, from the mindset you yourselves attribute to these people.

I suppose you think: "But sir, they knew I was a racist when they moved into my neighborhood, I cannot be blamed for acting out my racist beliefs," is a valid defense. It's like you are making out bigotry to be a form of mental illness.
It is certainly a form of irrational behavior, at least when applied to skin color. But that's the thing - you attribute the refusal to accomodate people of a certain skin color to an irrational attitude, and you are surprised when they behave irrationally. I was not defending the people who act this way, I was saying that your approach to problems is not unlike baiting someone to do bad things, because it would be wrong for them to do it. It doesn't make them right, but it DOES make YOU stupid. You may have the right to walk through a crime-infested neighborhood known to be hostile to people of your visible ethnic traits. That doesn't make it smart. And the moral wrongness of your assaulters does not get you any less hurt. My point in this post was not about being right or wrong for same sex couples to attend a prom, it was that we should not be surprised if attempting to force the issue leads to things like this. The rightness or wrongness of the school district in this case is irrelevant to my point. My point is, they could have been, and as it turned out, WERE, just as committed to preventing the kid from getting her way as she was to getting it. Since they had the power, they won.

I certainly was. You'd think these well minded conservatives would at least have the balls to stand up for what they believe, rather than just take their ball and go home. It is true, Liberals often mistakenly believe that Conservatives believe their arguments hold water.
It was not about an argument or giving a damn about convincing liberals - it was about not having a prom where girls were dressed as boys and bringing female dates. Maybe the kid was only trying to make a point. The school district was about getting their way. And they did. Win all the arguments you want, there are times when it does not pay to win.

How does this show that? The girl did not cancel the Prom. What it does show is that the School Boards inability to either stand up for it's ruling or admit fault in the ruling led to everyone just getting let down.
Why should they? They are not about taking stands on the issue - they didn't need the headache, so they called it off. That is simply more of your myopia - you can't see that sometimes people are just not interested in getting down in the dirt with you. When they have other priorities, they are going to do what is right for THEM, and you're simply going to take a lot of people down with you. I would not have had a problem if the girl had the guts to say "Good! If I can't be what I want at the prom, at least no one else can either." It was her whining that she did not think they would cancel the prom that exasperated me. This child was arrogantly assuming (if your version is correct) that the grown-ups whose job was to run a school district, of which hosting a stupid party was a very minor side aspect, were going to stoop to a debate and contest with her on equal terms.

Yet another idiotic tangent. If students tried to force a prayer into a school prom, there is a nice backlog of precedent for "no prayer at official public school events." There is not, however, much court precedent for "Girls must go to formal dances with girls" or "Girls may not wear Tuxes."
Actually there is, since universally heterogenous couples at school functions, and accepted codes of formal wear for genders go back a lot to well before the first ruling against prayer in school. And what do court precedents have to do with right and wrong? By the reasoning you suggest here (the apparent principle that the first court victory settles the argument forever), the Dred Scott case should still be the law of the land.

The girl and her date have nothing to be ashamed of. They stood up for something that they believed was right, which is what any parent would teach their child to do. The School Board, alternatively... what a bunch of wimps.
Or grown-ups with better things to do than get in a dogfight with a child who doesn't want to play by the rules established for the event they hosted.

Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date - 11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM 1680 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM 272 Views
Not ALL of the US. There were same-sex couples at my prom. *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:26:24 AM 305 Views
Yeah, don't worry, I know it's not like that everywhere. - 12/03/2010 09:15:43 AM 632 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage. - 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM 875 Views
Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM 703 Views
Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM 712 Views
Ummmm.... no. - 12/03/2010 11:02:50 PM 717 Views
i totally agree 100% with what you're saying - 12/03/2010 02:33:55 AM 832 Views
What??? - 12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM 780 Views
Actually... - 12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM 793 Views
Oh, it is definitely self-defense. - 12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM 717 Views
That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM 768 Views
Er... - 12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM 654 Views
I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM 716 Views
... - 12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM 642 Views
I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt." - 12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM 650 Views
That's right, I forgot to add that. - 12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM 705 Views
It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say? - 12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM 599 Views
Again, you're right. - 12/03/2010 03:59:13 PM 583 Views
Yup. - 12/03/2010 04:02:26 PM 687 Views
Not really. Her point is that they should both be illegal. - 12/03/2010 07:01:47 PM 614 Views
Re: That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM 660 Views
And when the school refused to change it's policy... - 12/03/2010 03:25:03 PM 614 Views
Absurd. - 12/03/2010 08:27:19 PM 682 Views
The rules were unjust. - 13/03/2010 05:09:59 AM 718 Views
Wow, talk about proving my point! - 12/03/2010 11:04:34 PM 823 Views
So hang on. - 13/03/2010 05:04:58 AM 700 Views
It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong. - 12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM 688 Views
It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO - 12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM 737 Views
Maybe. - 12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM 733 Views
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM 661 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 01:53:39 PM 679 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 03:04:43 PM 639 Views
As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here. - 12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM 632 Views
Just giving the benefit of the doubt... - 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM 693 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM 664 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM 663 Views
That wasn't the impression I was under - 12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM 558 Views
Re: That wasn't the impression I was under - 13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM 706 Views
Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux" - 15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM 599 Views
Your comments are inconsistent - 15/03/2010 02:09:43 AM 653 Views
I think you're optimistic about what her chances would've been - 12/03/2010 07:13:38 PM 665 Views
For the record... - 12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM 646 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM 685 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM 709 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM 686 Views
Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit? - 12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM 659 Views
Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 01:46:23 PM 654 Views
Re: Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 07:25:41 PM 731 Views
I have issues with both sides, I think - 12/03/2010 02:44:06 PM 620 Views
When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend - 12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM 777 Views
Another thing I think people should remember - - 12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM 773 Views
One point though - 12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM 701 Views
Re: One point though - 12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM 760 Views
My point was that it was a hollow reassurance - 12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM 587 Views
yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much? - 13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM 558 Views
Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else - 13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM 625 Views
It does - 13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM 604 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM 562 Views
I typically agree with you - 13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM 660 Views
Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM 600 Views
yah, but at this point, how much of it is the girl? - 13/03/2010 10:24:57 PM 564 Views
Is she a child or an adult? IIRC she's 18 - 13/03/2010 11:33:39 PM 621 Views
No, it should not - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM 826 Views
Re: No, it should not - 14/03/2010 01:16:33 AM 727 Views
I understood that. You explained it well. *NM* - 14/03/2010 03:28:10 AM 281 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM 663 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM 541 Views
This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 04:27:43 AM 696 Views
Re: This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 05:18:11 AM 937 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM 626 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM 558 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM 751 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:11:11 AM 659 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 03:42:06 AM 702 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:47:47 AM 707 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 04:09:18 AM 673 Views
You make good points. *NM* - 15/03/2010 08:08:37 PM 262 Views
Ah, yes, "the rules." - 15/03/2010 01:47:31 AM 591 Views
Read my replies to Nossy and Ghavrel - 15/03/2010 05:01:29 AM 621 Views
Slippery slope arguments are stupid. - 14/03/2010 12:43:00 AM 547 Views
So is likening everythng back to the Civil Rights Movement - 14/03/2010 04:17:54 AM 704 Views
"Dress codes exists for a reason?" - 15/03/2010 01:43:36 AM 611 Views
They do - 15/03/2010 05:08:17 AM 721 Views
Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM* - 12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM 435 Views
So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened - 12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM 550 Views
Teenaged lesbians - 15/03/2010 06:55:12 AM 660 Views

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