Going through the right channels displays maturity, but doesn't get you want you want automatically nor should it. We don't reward people for followings the rules. Nor do we change rules just because the person who asked did so in the proper fashion. The school did deal with it in the right way, they said 'no', she contacted the ACLU.
And I don't think they should they be surprised if they are making an oppressive stance (homosexuality issue, not clothing rules) and someone fights it.
I can write up an entirely legitimate and reasonable request, filed courteously through the proper chain, requesting I be allowed to wear a kilt to an event. That doesn't mean they should be required to say yes, if I then follow up with threat of legal action, I leave them little choice but to expend vast efforts and funds - funds paid for by the citizens - to fight the effort, win or lose, or to cave and permit me to wear a kilt. Personally, if faced with such an ultimatum, I would choose to cancel the whole affair as a matter of principle.
Well, that's not really the right way to look at it, the cancellation took place once the ACLU showed up and threatened them. When dealing with the ACLU, you know they will fight till the last breath, this left them 3 options
1) Fight it out... God alone knows how much money and effort they would spend while slugging it through the courts, win or lose, while drawing attention to themselves. This would be a horrible waste of money and demonize them in the yes of much of the country.
2) Surrender, let her wear the tux and attend arm in arm with her date. In doing this they anger much of the local population, who votes them into office and votes for school levies. It would make them look weak and invite disobedience by students and teachers. In all likelihood if they surrendered they would be replaced, possibly before the next election, by people with even more hard-line views.
3) Cancel the event. You can't fight, you can't surrender, so you deny combat. Ideally everything settles down and either the issue goes away or next year you cancel it again until the locals either say 'fine, go ahead and permit open gays' or students stop trying. It's not the cowardly approach, just the pragmatic one. Options 1 and 2 are lose-lose.
Well, that's not really the right way to look at it, the cancellation took place once the ACLU showed up and threatened them. When dealing with the ACLU, you know they will fight till the last breath, this left them 3 options
1) Fight it out... God alone knows how much money and effort they would spend while slugging it through the courts, win or lose, while drawing attention to themselves. This would be a horrible waste of money and demonize them in the yes of much of the country.
2) Surrender, let her wear the tux and attend arm in arm with her date. In doing this they anger much of the local population, who votes them into office and votes for school levies. It would make them look weak and invite disobedience by students and teachers. In all likelihood if they surrendered they would be replaced, possibly before the next election, by people with even more hard-line views.
3) Cancel the event. You can't fight, you can't surrender, so you deny combat. Ideally everything settles down and either the issue goes away or next year you cancel it again until the locals either say 'fine, go ahead and permit open gays' or students stop trying. It's not the cowardly approach, just the pragmatic one. Options 1 and 2 are lose-lose.
Some points here:
1) I think it depends whether we're talking about the clothing or the homosexuality issue. I can respect their rules on clothing laws, because different rules can be necessary for schools (than would be for society).
2) This problem has not gone away for them simply because they decided to cancel the prom.
3) If you are (if it can be proven - hence a properly run court case) oppressing someone, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that the fight doesn't just fade away because you cancel on your "principles." Even if the voters are not yet ready for this, it's clearly already an issue that won't simply disappear.
So again, the issue has not gone away because they avoided it on this level. There is now a fight to get the prom back on, so they are in an issue anyway. If you want to blame the girl, I suppose you have the right, but as I said to Amanda, I guess that just means I'm damn glad not to be gay. I really wouldn't like the type of life that meant I had to live with fewer options or have people say I deserved what I got for being disruptive to all the "normal" people.
Let's keep in mind they this is all about symbolic victories, the school board can't be seen to lose, the girl wants a symbolic victory. She could attend in a dress separately and meet her date there, dance, etc. The ACLU even reports that when they contacted the school it said district officials told McMillen she and her girlfriend wouldn't be allowed to arrive together, that she would not be allowed to wear a tuxedo, and that she and her girlfriend might be asked to leave if their presence made any other students "uncomfortable."
Now in diplo speak that's "Go ahead an show up, just don't walk in the door arm in arm, don't wear a tux, and don't display any levels of affection (which are probably alreayd against the rules) that will have to makes us take action"
So what is she and the ACLU fighting for? A symbolic victory that the schoolboard can not give her instead of a practical one that they appear to have offered.
Now in diplo speak that's "Go ahead an show up, just don't walk in the door arm in arm, don't wear a tux, and don't display any levels of affection (which are probably alreayd against the rules) that will have to makes us take action"
So what is she and the ACLU fighting for? A symbolic victory that the schoolboard can not give her instead of a practical one that they appear to have offered.
I don't disagree about the concept of a symbolic victory. I thought about that as well. But honestly, if you read what you just wrote (and I usually HATE when people throw in this type of comment, but...), doesn't that feel a little "if you sit in the back of the bus, we'll let you ride" to you?
edit for embarrassing grammar/etc.
This message last edited by nossy on 14/03/2010 at 01:00:02 AM
Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date
11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM
- 1679 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM*
12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM
- 271 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage.
12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM
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Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with.
12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM
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Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with.
12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM
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What???
12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM
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Actually...
12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM
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Oh, it is definitely self-defense.
12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM
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That analogy is not apt.
12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM
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Er...
12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM
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I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt.
12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM
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...
12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM
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I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt."
12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM
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That's right, I forgot to add that.
12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM
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It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say?
12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM
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Re: That analogy is not apt.
12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM
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It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong.
12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM
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Re: This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage.
12/03/2010 02:31:06 PM
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Why don't you show me where I said marriage is holy OR made a religious argument, you imbecile?
12/03/2010 10:32:42 PM
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actually, i thought i read that it was because she wanted to wear a tux instead of a dress
12/03/2010 02:46:00 AM
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Kind of a different can of worms then
12/03/2010 03:20:35 AM
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What?! Now that is a can of worms I could see getting in a fight over.
14/03/2010 01:24:47 AM
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Hmm. Apparently it is legal to discriminate upon the basis of gender. Imagine that.
14/03/2010 02:45:51 AM
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It kind of makes sense, given the highly arbitrary and stereotypical nature of gender.
14/03/2010 03:35:44 AM
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Re: What?! Now that is a can of worms I could see getting in a fight over.
15/03/2010 02:01:00 AM
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It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO
12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM
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Maybe.
12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM
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"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters"
12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM
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As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here.
12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM
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Just giving the benefit of the doubt...
12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM
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Re: "Pursuing their ideology"
12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM
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Re: "Pursuing their ideology"
12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM
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That wasn't the impression I was under
12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM
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Re: That wasn't the impression I was under
13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM
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Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux"
15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM
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For the record...
12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM
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Re: For the record...
12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM
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Re: For the record...
12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM
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Re: For the record...
12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM
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No no, I know how you feel. I'm just disinclined to have sympathy for the school.
12/03/2010 11:28:35 PM
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Alternatively, I have little sympathy for the school, I just don't have much for her either
12/03/2010 11:56:08 PM
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Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit?
12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM
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Regardless of "rights" invovled, I don't see why she shouldn't be able to go as she pleases.
12/03/2010 05:25:31 PM
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When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend
12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM
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Another thing I think people should remember -
12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM
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One point though
12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM
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Re: One point though
12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM
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My point was that it was a hollow reassurance
12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM
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yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much?
13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM
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Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else
13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM
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It does
13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM
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Re: It does
13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM
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I typically agree with you
13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM
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Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory
13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM
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No, it should not
14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM
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Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory
15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM
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Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory
15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM
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He wasn't neccessarily advocating it. He was translating what they were doing into something that
16/03/2010 01:37:59 AM
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I'd argue that that kind of hypocrisy is invaluable in today's world, actually.
16/03/2010 01:46:16 AM
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Re: It does
13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM
- 625 Views
Re: It does
13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM
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Re: It does
13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM
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Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM*
12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM
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So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened
12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM
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