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and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM

Wow, is this a broken CD or what? :D

It is important to note that when Elayne decided to pose as one of the Forsaken she took her woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal and drew on as much of the Power as she deemed safe.

This is important evidence showing that Elayne considers the distance between herself and the Forsaken to be considerable (in raw strength at least). With her disguise she didn't think she could impersonate a Forsaken unless was filled with a lot of saidar. People might say that we all know that she's not Forsaken strength, but the important evidence is that she drew on as much saidar as she could. This, to me, says that she considers Forsaken strength to be much higher than her own.

Elayne knows how strong Moghedien is. I'm not saying that's what she aimed for. But I do think she aimed for Nynaeve level, and this hints once again that the difference between Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha and Nynaeve/Forsaken is considerable.


She drew fairly lightly on the Angreal actually. Note that she wasn't holding enough Power to face 3 AS at once even holding the (very weak) Angreal. She Wove shields individually for each woman and tied them off rather than weaving 3 and shielding them all at once... something she should have been able to do if she was bursting at the seams with a stronger angreal.

And we know that the Angreal is very weak ... was the weakest of the 3 found in the stash ... Nynaeve's was just strong enough to make Elayne 2x stronger than Nynaeve, the turtle was weaker, let's say 1.5x stronger than Nynaeve ... it's possible the woman angreal could only give Elayne a total potential just above Nynaeve if she drew to it's fullest, which she clearly did not.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3407 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1743 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1574 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 845 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1485 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1685 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1525 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1490 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1537 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1416 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1538 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 929 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 1275 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1578 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1516 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1439 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 907 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1488 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1407 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1518 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 1331 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1433 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1445 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1457 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1400 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1304 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1583 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1584 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1480 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1431 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1260 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1329 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1285 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1394 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1391 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1398 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1355 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1342 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1466 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1497 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1395 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1645 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1430 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1455 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1233 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1341 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1334 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1411 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1386 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1324 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1337 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1402 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 1308 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1314 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1378 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1446 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1383 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1433 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1250 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1384 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 1178 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1494 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1461 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1375 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 689 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1415 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1532 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1448 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 1170 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1307 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1350 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1395 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1326 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 1209 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1361 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 1146 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1386 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1466 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1326 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1362 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1323 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1573 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1461 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1270 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1286 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 1168 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1288 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1436 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1377 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1437 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1328 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1366 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1355 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1408 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1306 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 894 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1352 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1282 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 1198 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1364 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1220 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1251 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1280 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1390 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1309 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1372 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1315 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1286 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1389 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1367 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1276 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1366 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1282 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1309 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 1187 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 1191 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1210 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1383 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 1243 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2740 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1347 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1489 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1237 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1355 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1373 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1336 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1289 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1257 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1452 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1377 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1382 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1384 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1436 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1546 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1251 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1251 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1370 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1360 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1360 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 1339 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1410 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 1349 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1367 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1388 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 919 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1320 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1331 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1260 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1301 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1466 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1407 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1291 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 777 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 1291 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1299 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1313 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1299 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1343 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1350 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1385 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 836 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1266 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1348 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1423 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 1202 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1368 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1390 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 1310 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1377 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 1283 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1368 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1532 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1417 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1518 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1296 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 865 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1231 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1264 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1396 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1302 Views
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