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Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow Send a noteboard - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM
and as early as TGH she was already at Moiraine or so level. She progressed rapidly in strength over the next two books before her confrontation with Moghedien. Much like Rand progressed from not Channeling at all at the beginning of EoTW to being stronger than Aginor by the end! It's called RJ changing the rules as it suited him.

I postulate that Nynaeve, at full strength, is about a 96, Moghedien is probably 88, that means Nynaeve would have been just a bit over 90% of her full potential when she faced Moghedien and also allows for the "Alivia is considerably stronger" quote a few months later if Alivia is a 99, when Nynaeve's current strength was say 90 (about where I have Mesaana).

If an average AS is between a 24-30 and Moiraine a 45 that puts the Wondergirls at 80 and still allows for the various strength defining quotes as well as the actual actions these women can perform.

It also explains why we have only met 3 Aiel, 2 WF and 1 Seanchan who can match or exceed Elayne's strength. If they were only a 50 that would put them at the height of the bell curve and we would be seeing dozens of women in their strength range. The fact that we do not is indicative of them being far closer to the FS end of the strength curve.

Another thing to ask yourself... why would RJ have made these main protagonists so much weaker? The plot alone demands them to be just shy of FS strength and well above AS or they would be minor players. You can say Elayne and Egwene needed to be just above AS to make them stand out, but Aviendha? From a culture that doesn't care about her strength? Why make her just a very strong AS level Channeler? It makes no sense if you really think about it.


So Nynaeve is at Moiraine's level in Book 2, and then suddenly jumps to Moghedien's level by Book 4. This indicates a massive growth in power over a very short period, despite her block still being in place.

Why would this rate of increase suddenly top off at 90% in Book 4, and then only leave another 10% for the remaining books of the series? Logic dictates that this sudden growth spurt should continue ESPECIALLY after her block is finally released - which only occurs in Book 7.

Nope, Nynaeve's growth in strength continues well after Book 4. There is NOTHING to indicate that she was even close to 90% of her full strength in Book 4. To the contrary, Nynaeve channels far more regularly AFTER Book 4, than she did before it. And she channnels EVEN more after her block is released in Book 7.

Logically, her rate of growth would increase as she starts channeling more often, and greater volumes of the Power on a consistent basis.

Why do you think RJ chose Moghedien - the weakest of the Forsaken - for Nynaeve to face in Book 4 - when she was patently still far from her full potential? It was because Nynaeve at maximum strength is as strong as an average female Forsaken, and for her to be able to match her adversary in Book 4, it had to be one who was much weaker than the others.

This is particularly clear considering that there are so many levels of strength ABOVE Moghedien, who is renowned for her weakness compared to the other female Forsaken.

Your logic doesn't hold up to scrutiny, I'm afraid.

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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3521 Views
Yes. - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1849 Views
No. - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1671 Views
Indeed! *NM* - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 903 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1573 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1791 Views
Three things: - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1626 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1522 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1651 Views
Agreed. - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1687 Views
not really - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1619 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1537 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 965 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1587 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1500 Views
Re: not really - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1550 Views
Angreal have buffers - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1572 Views
none of them are very strong - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1502 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1391 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1674 Views
Exactly - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1686 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1589 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1553 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1376 Views
where is that quote my friend? - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1440 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1389 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1494 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1497 Views
Don't be absurd... - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1494 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1439 Views
Nonsense... - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1448 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1575 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1598 Views
And yet... - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1495 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1732 Views
Here are te quotes... - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1526 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1563 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1341 Views
Oh nonsense - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1435 Views
But that's his point. - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1430 Views
its a useless point - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1518 Views
Yes, utterly useless... - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1485 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1424 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1429 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1506 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1418 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1472 Views
What? - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1557 Views
Re: What? - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1477 Views
Oh boohoo... - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1550 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1351 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1478 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1591 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1574 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1481 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 750 Views
Re: Yes. - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1519 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1649 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1546 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 1276 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1450 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1454 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1501 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1433 Views
that's the point I'm making - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 1304 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1458 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1675 Views
nope - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1561 Views
Mesaana - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1367 Views
agreed - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1389 Views
Re: agreed - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 1273 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1390 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1542 Views
yes and no - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1465 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1530 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1422 Views
"clear evidence" - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1472 Views
Laughable interpretation... - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1453 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1497 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1408 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 965 Views
couple of thoughts here - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1461 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1383 Views
that's what I said! EDIT - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 1312 Views
Well... - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1467 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1324 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1356 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1395 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1495 Views
I agree with that completely. - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1419 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1478 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1417 Views
Dude... - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1389 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1496 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1457 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1370 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1473 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1388 Views
And she doesn't know any details... - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1398 Views
this conversation is so pointless - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 1292 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 1296 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1317 Views
Of course its obvious now! - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1493 Views
Shielding - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2846 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1452 Views
There is, actually... - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1342 Views
Meh - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1460 Views
Well... - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1461 Views
Re: Well... - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1447 Views
Tell Darius that... - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1381 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1353 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1549 Views
You forget... - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1485 Views
astounding "evidence" - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1492 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1548 Views
thanks - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1643 Views
Re: thanks - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1365 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1368 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1473 Views
I don't get the logic here... - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1492 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 982 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1414 Views
And...? - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1428 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1357 Views
That was my interpretation too - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1400 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1568 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1520 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1397 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 828 Views
And... - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1393 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1420 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1409 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1441 Views
Yes, I did know that. - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1454 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1479 Views
Oops. *NM* - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 893 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1363 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1440 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1521 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1495 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1473 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1636 Views
Help im new! - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1518 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1624 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1403 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 928 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1333 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1364 Views
you misread the topic - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1498 Views
But the debate is moronic because... - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1421 Views

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