100 Lanfear
98 Cyndane/Alivia
96 Graendal/Sharina
95 Nynaeve (full)
93 Semirhage
90 Mesaana
88 Moghedien
80 Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
72 Bode
65 Cadsuane
60 Meilyn/Karene
48 Elaida/Romanda/Lelaine/Moiraine/Siuan (old)
42 Amys
40 Sheriam
38 Anaiya/Melaine
32 Delana
28 Alanna
24 Chesmal ** assumes this is the level of the majority of "average AS
22 Adeleas
20 Siuan (new)
16 Daigian
14 below novice
10 below novice
5 Morgase
Like all of these lists, these numbers are completely arbitrary!
What we really know know is that Egwene is roughly the equal of Melaine + Amys (both of whom are stronger than almost all AS) and that Moiraine (currently the highest normal AS) is about 3x Daigian. There is a sharp uptick from Moiraine to Meylin/Kerene (per New Spring) and that Cadsuane is stronger than them but still below Egwene or Elayn, and there is still room between them and Cadsuane for Bode. We've also been told that AS cover a broader range than people think, that only the strongest 2/3 of women have the requisite strength to become AS.
What we now have is:
Moiraine = 3 Daigains
Cadsuane = 4 Daigians
Bode = 4.5 Daigians
Egwene = 5 Daigians
Moghedien = 5.5 Daigians
Mesaana = 5.6 Daigians
Semirhage = 5.75 Daigians
Nynaeve = 5.9 Daigians
Graendal = 6 Daigians
Alivia = 6.12 Daigains
Lanfear = 6.25 Daigians
It makes way more sense to me that there are bigger differentials in the middle of the range than at the extremes ... the top level people are all pretty close over all IMO ... with the extremes of strength starting around Egwene and working up to Lanfear... IMO Egwene (or possibly Bode) and company are the weakest of the strong rather than the strongest of the weak, I'd say Cadsuane is the strongest of the weak. It fits thematically into her being the strongest AS in over 1000 years as well.
98 Cyndane/Alivia
96 Graendal/Sharina
95 Nynaeve (full)
93 Semirhage
90 Mesaana
88 Moghedien
80 Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
72 Bode
65 Cadsuane
60 Meilyn/Karene
48 Elaida/Romanda/Lelaine/Moiraine/Siuan (old)
42 Amys
40 Sheriam
38 Anaiya/Melaine
32 Delana
28 Alanna
24 Chesmal ** assumes this is the level of the majority of "average AS
22 Adeleas
20 Siuan (new)
16 Daigian
14 below novice
10 below novice
5 Morgase
Like all of these lists, these numbers are completely arbitrary!
What we really know know is that Egwene is roughly the equal of Melaine + Amys (both of whom are stronger than almost all AS) and that Moiraine (currently the highest normal AS) is about 3x Daigian. There is a sharp uptick from Moiraine to Meylin/Kerene (per New Spring) and that Cadsuane is stronger than them but still below Egwene or Elayn, and there is still room between them and Cadsuane for Bode. We've also been told that AS cover a broader range than people think, that only the strongest 2/3 of women have the requisite strength to become AS.
What we now have is:
Moiraine = 3 Daigains
Cadsuane = 4 Daigians
Bode = 4.5 Daigians
Egwene = 5 Daigians
Moghedien = 5.5 Daigians
Mesaana = 5.6 Daigians
Semirhage = 5.75 Daigians
Nynaeve = 5.9 Daigians
Graendal = 6 Daigians
Alivia = 6.12 Daigains
Lanfear = 6.25 Daigians
It makes way more sense to me that there are bigger differentials in the middle of the range than at the extremes ... the top level people are all pretty close over all IMO ... with the extremes of strength starting around Egwene and working up to Lanfear... IMO Egwene (or possibly Bode) and company are the weakest of the strong rather than the strongest of the weak, I'd say Cadsuane is the strongest of the weak. It fits thematically into her being the strongest AS in over 1000 years as well.
I almost agree with this list - except I still feel Semi and Messy are probably stronger - at no point does it show Moggy weaker than Nyneave. It always states them as equal - fans have decided to argue over whether Nyneave was at her full potential or half potential etc.
Anyway irrespective of where Nyneave and Moggy stand vis a vie each other - i think the difference if any would hardly be considerable.
As for Mesaana - putting aside BS's remark - judging Messy by what Eggy says - I think she is stronger than Nyneave. Egwene wouldnt have be awed.. when she met Messy - if she was weaker than Nyneave - as she is used to Nyneaves level strength and more, ie Sharina!!
But of all the crazy lists I have seen - this is the best!
I do agree with the others that Moghedien is a good jump below Nynaeve though ... it's been said in the books (TPoD) that Nynaeve had yet to reach her full strength ... which means months after her battle with Moghedien (when they were equal) she was still getting stronger. It's also possible that Mesaana is equal to Semirhage, but Sandersons comments has me putting a little distance between them.
End of the day for me I think all the Forsaken are pretty damn close in Power ... even Moghedien thinks she has a shot at becoming Nae'bliss which is indicative that she is in the same general range of the others, even if she's the weakest.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM
- 3037 Views
Yes.
09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM
- 1380 Views
No.
09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM
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Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me
09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM
- 1164 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease.
09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM
- 1391 Views
Three things:
09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM
- 1146 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books...
09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM
- 1142 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work.
09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM
- 1158 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal...
10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM
- 1088 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue?
09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM
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I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM*
09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM
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not really
09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM
- 1168 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong
09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM
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She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM*
09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM
- 740 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power
09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM
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I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though
09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM
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I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity
09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM
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hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex
09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM
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Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV
09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM
- 1062 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths
09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM
- 913 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength...
09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM
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you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength
09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM
- 1065 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal...
09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM
- 894 Views
where is that quote my friend?
09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM
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PoD: The Breaking Storm
09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM
- 880 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne
09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM
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That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means...
09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM
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Don't be absurd...
09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM
- 1057 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian
09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
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"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..."
09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM
- 1141 Views
And yet...
09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM
- 1074 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle...
09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM
- 1300 Views
Here are te quotes...
09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM
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Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana?
09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM
- 1085 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine!
10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM
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Oh nonsense
10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM
- 998 Views
But that's his point.
10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM
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its a useless point
10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM
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Yes, utterly useless...
10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM
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Dude, you need to re-read the books...
10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM
- 980 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM
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Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
- 1065 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal.
11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM
- 967 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
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Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
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Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM
- 911 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM
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which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being
10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM
- 890 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years
10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM
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Re: Yes.
09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM
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You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
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where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak
09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM
- 1105 Views
Nope...
09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM
- 818 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
- 902 Views
Nope...
09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM
- 994 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM
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Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM
- 984 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced
12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM
- 1004 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM
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Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM
- 1040 Views
Thanks for the quote
12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM
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perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin
12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
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Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM
- 1032 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW
12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM
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Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
- 1201 Views
Mesaana
10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM
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agreed
10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM
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Re: agreed
10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM
- 850 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM
- 886 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM
- 1070 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM
- 1079 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels.
10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM
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"clear evidence"
10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM
- 1010 Views
Laughable interpretation...
10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
- 1044 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM
- 997 Views
couple of thoughts here
10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM
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Re: couple of thoughts here
10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM
- 970 Views
that's what I said! EDIT
11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM
- 851 Views
Well...
11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM
- 1074 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
- 911 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well
11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM
- 933 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM
- 945 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM
- 1034 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
- 1049 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT
12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM
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Dude...
12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM
- 932 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower!
12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM
- 1005 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question...
13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM
- 1006 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot
13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM
- 949 Views
She knows but she doesn't know?
13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM
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She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability
13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM
- 968 Views
And she doesn't know any details...
13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM
- 969 Views
this conversation is so pointless
13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM
- 816 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM
- 856 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM
- 870 Views
Of course its obvious now!
14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM
- 1059 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her
18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM
- 895 Views
Shielding
13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM
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Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM
- 994 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM
- 1112 Views
There is, actually...
13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM
- 911 Views
Meh
14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM
- 1002 Views
Well...
14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM
- 1026 Views
Re: Well...
14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
- 1000 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength
18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM
- 909 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM
- 1134 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed
11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM
- 1036 Views
astounding "evidence"
10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM
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Re: astounding "evidence"
11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM
- 1064 Views
thanks
11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM
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Re: thanks
12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM
- 897 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part
12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM
- 889 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part
12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM
- 1008 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM
- 1009 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM
- 1000 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM
- 979 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM
- 1036 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM
- 961 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM
- 1009 Views
I don't get the logic here...
09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM
- 1039 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve
09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM
- 1010 Views
And...?
09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM
- 1015 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies.
09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM
- 913 Views
That was my interpretation too
10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM
- 948 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM
- 1083 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline
10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM
- 943 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more
10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM
- 941 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM
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Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM
- 994 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed
10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM
- 1003 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM
- 926 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM
- 991 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM
- 870 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential
10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM
- 1045 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM
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Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM
- 1050 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance
10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM
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How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM*
18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM
- 701 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least?
18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM
- 952 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken.
19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM
- 956 Views