Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
at no time when she is forkroot free is she held by only one woman. The only exceptions are when she's brought to Silviana when she's first captured (and she's heavily forkrooted), and then when Turana or Barasine IIRC runs off to check on the Reds leaving only one woman ... and Egwene had sworn not to try anything (implying she could break free of just one).
Where is the quote where we are told one could hold her? The only one I'm aware of is the Silviana quote and that's when Egwene is forkrooted.
Where is the quote where we are told one could hold her? The only one I'm aware of is the Silviana quote and that's when Egwene is forkrooted.
But that is the important part. Sure, at that point in time, Egwene still had some Forkroot in her. But, since she wasn't to be fed it at night, withing a few hours, she would have been completely forkroot free. Yes, Katerine thinks Barasine alone can hold her. It just doesn't add up.
Also, on the first night when Silviana alone holds her shield... the Forkroot at that point was clearly not having any strong effect. In the carriage itself, Egwene judged that she could have enough of the power to defeat five Aes Sedai, if she surprised them. It was clearly not that strong a dose.
Silviana is covering all of her bases ... she certainly doesn't want to run the risk of Egwene waking up in the middle of the night, breaking a too weak shield and vanishing via gateway ... thus the "this child is tricky" comment. Let's face it any Sister could hold a shield on a sleeping woman.
Katerine was just bitching that she's stuck with the task. It's in her nature to hate being forced to do tasks like this! Note how Silviana treats Katerine in this moment ... like a petulant child! Her response is "Because I said so" something you say to a bratty kid!
And Egwene still had so much Forkroot in her she was only barely able to Channel at all... not to mention she was exhausted from being captured!
KOD
Prologe
Apparently she did not. Katerine flushed, but she said no more. The glow of saidar surrounded Silviana, and she took over the shield smoothly, without giving any opening when Egwene might have embraced the Power herself. She was certain that she could, now. Except that Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope she could break the woman’s shield. The gag of Air disappeared at the same time, and she contented herself with digging a handkerchief from her belt pouch and calmly wiping her chin.
First note that Egwene is only now able to even embrace the source and we know from history that Forkroot dampens your strength for hours (as we see all through the rest of the book Egwene can channel only a trickle). This quote gives absolutely no indication that Barasine alone is capable of holding a shield on Egwene for long!
Then let's take this into consideration:
TGS
News in TAR
The two glanced at her with annoyance. "The shield," Barasine said. "We've been instructed to always have at least two to maintain it."
"Oh, for the. . . ." Egwene took a deep breath. "If I vow not to embrace the Power until I am properly back in the custody of another Red sister, will that be enough for you?"
The two regarded her with suspicion.
"I suspected as much," Egwene said. She turned to a group of novices who were standing in a side corridor, pretending to scrub the tiles on the side wall while they gawked at Egwene.
"You," Egwene said, pointing to one of them. "Marsial, isn't it?"
"Yes, Mother," the girl squeaked.
"Go and fetch us some forkroot tea. Katerine should have some at the study of the Mistress of Novices. It's not far. Tell her that Barasine requested it for use on me; bring it to my quarters."
The novice scrambled off to do as asked.
"I'll dose myself with that, and then at least one of you can go," Egwene said. "Your Ajah is collapsing. They're going to need all of the clear minds they can get; maybe you can convince your sisters that it is unwise to let Elaida execute Silviana."
The two Reds glanced at each other uncertainly. Then the spindly one whose name Egwene didn't know cursed softly and hurried away with a flurry of rustling skirts. Barasine called after her, but the woman didn't return.
Barasine glanced at Egwene, muttered something under her breath, but remained in place. "We're waiting for that forkroot," she said, staring Egwene in the eyes. "Keep moving on to your quarters."
Always instructed to have at least 2 maintaining the shield (implying that if weaker Sisters were holding it there may be need for more), Barasine muttering under her breath and calling for the other Red to return ... and there is no evidence that the other one even left the link ... no reason to assume Barasine wasn't in control of a link and the other woman's strength was still there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM
3332 Views
Yes.
- 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM
1657 Views
No.
- 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM
1492 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me
- 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM
1409 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease.
- 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM
1625 Views
Three things:
- 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM
1442 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books...
- 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM
1419 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work.
- 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM
1455 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal...
- 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM
1349 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue?
- 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM
1453 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM*
- 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM
889 Views
not really
- 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM
1437 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong
- 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM
1363 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM*
- 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM
867 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power
- 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM
1405 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though
- 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM
1326 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity
- 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM
1439 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex
- 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM
1233 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV
- 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM
1344 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths
- 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM
1229 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength...
- 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM
1387 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength
- 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM
1361 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal...
- 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM
1172 Views
where is that quote my friend?
- 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM
1221 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm
- 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM
1200 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne
- 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM
1318 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means...
- 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM
1325 Views
Don't be absurd...
- 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM
1327 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian
- 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
1395 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..."
- 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM
1417 Views
And yet...
- 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM
1317 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle...
- 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM
1563 Views
Here are te quotes...
- 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM
1360 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana?
- 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM
1377 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine!
- 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM
1169 Views
Oh nonsense
- 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM
1242 Views
But that's his point.
- 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM
1256 Views
its a useless point
- 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM
1345 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
1227 Views
Yes, utterly useless...
- 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM
1320 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books...
- 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM
1244 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
- 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM
1261 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
- 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
1323 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal.
- 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM
1233 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
1227 Views
Re:
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
1300 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
1300 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
- 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM
1182 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
- 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM
1306 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being
- 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM
1103 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years
- 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM
1425 Views
Re: Yes.
- 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM
1332 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
- 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
1453 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak
- 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM
1369 Views
Nope...
- 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM
1100 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
- 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
1206 Views
- 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
1206 Views
Nope...
- 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM
1284 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM
1321 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM
1255 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced
- 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM
1285 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
- 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM
1066 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
- 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM
1323 Views
Thanks for the quote
- 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM
1386 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin
- 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
1258 Views
- 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
1258 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM
1274 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW
- 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM
1262 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
- 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
1481 Views
- 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
1481 Views
Mesaana
- 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM
1170 Views
agreed
- 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM
1219 Views
Re: agreed
- 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM
1097 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
- 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM
1191 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
- 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM
1358 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
- 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM
1358 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels.
- 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM
1261 Views
"clear evidence"
- 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM
1291 Views
Laughable interpretation...
- 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
1289 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
- 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM
1236 Views
couple of thoughts here
- 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM
1282 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here
- 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM
1214 Views
that's what I said! EDIT
- 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM
1120 Views
Well...
- 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM
1303 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
- 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
1150 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well
- 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM
1183 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
- 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM
1212 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
- 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM
1312 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
- 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
1310 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT
- 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM
1225 Views
Dude...
- 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM
1181 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower!
- 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM
1320 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question...
- 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM
1292 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot
- 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM
1204 Views
She knows but she doesn't know?
- 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM
1299 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability
- 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM
1205 Views
And she doesn't know any details...
- 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM
1241 Views
this conversation is so pointless
- 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM
1104 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
- 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM
1108 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
- 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM
1118 Views
Of course its obvious now!
- 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM
1314 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her
- 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM
1166 Views
Shielding
- 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM
2677 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
- 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM
1264 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
- 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM
1407 Views
There is, actually...
- 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM
1167 Views
Meh
- 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM
1277 Views
Well...
- 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM
1297 Views
Re: Well...
- 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
1265 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength
- 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM
1189 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
- 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM
1390 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed
- 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM
1301 Views
astounding "evidence"
- 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM
1319 Views
Re: astounding "evidence"
- 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM
1350 Views
thanks
- 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM
1464 Views
Re: thanks
- 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM
1181 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part
- 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM
1166 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part
- 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM
1273 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
- 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM
1287 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
- 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM
1266 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM
1279 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM
1311 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM
1234 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM
1290 Views
I don't get the logic here...
- 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM
1321 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve
- 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM
1247 Views
And...?
- 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM
1257 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies.
- 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM
1187 Views
That was my interpretation too
- 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM
1221 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM
1322 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline
- 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM
1214 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more
- 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM
1227 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM
1227 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM
1228 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed
- 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM
1268 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM
1183 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM
1255 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM
1137 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential
- 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM
1285 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM
1323 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
- 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM
1214 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
- 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM
1306 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance
- 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM
1205 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM*
- 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM
830 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least?
- 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM
1161 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken.
- 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM
1193 Views

*NM*