Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
Silviana is covering all of her bases ...
Exactly. She's taking extra precautions. These aren't necessary.
she certainly doesn't want to run the risk of Egwene waking up in the middle of the night, breaking a too weak shield and vanishing via gateway ... thus the "this child is tricky" comment. Let's face it any Sister could hold a shield on a sleeping woman.
And keep the woman sleeping? The point you are ignoring is that Silviana, Katerine, Barasine (by their reactions) and Egwene (by her PoV) make it clear that Barasine alone can hold Egwene's shield, even when the Forkroot is gone.
Katerine was just bitching that she's stuck with the task. It's in her nature to hate being forced to do tasks like this! Note how Silviana treats Katerine in this moment ... like a petulant child! Her response is "Because I said so" something you say to a bratty kid!
Okay... so? Egwene doesn't seem surprised at all by Katarine's comment. She never thinks, "Oh great! That means I can escape". Instead, she notes that Barasine seem displeased by Katerine's comment, since it implied that the weaker sister, Barasine, would be asked to hold the shield. Even then, Egwene doesn't comment on the sheer impossibility of that. To me that indicates that Barasine can shield Egwene.
And Egwene still had so much Forkroot in her she was only barely able to Channel at all... not to mention she was exhausted from being captured!
And this is the state in which she was confident she could surprise five Aes Sedai and escape?

What is she, Lanfear?
KOD
Prologe
Apparently she did not. Katerine flushed, but she said no more. The glow of saidar surrounded Silviana, and she took over the shield smoothly, without giving any opening when Egwene might have embraced the Power herself. She was certain that she could, now. Except that Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope she could break the woman’s shield. The gag of Air disappeared at the same time, and she contented herself with digging a handkerchief from her belt pouch and calmly wiping her chin.
First note that Egwene is only now able to even embrace the source and we know from history that Forkroot dampens your strength for hours (as we see all through the rest of the book Egwene can channel only a trickle).
Prologe
Apparently she did not. Katerine flushed, but she said no more. The glow of saidar surrounded Silviana, and she took over the shield smoothly, without giving any opening when Egwene might have embraced the Power herself. She was certain that she could, now. Except that Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope she could break the woman’s shield. The gag of Air disappeared at the same time, and she contented herself with digging a handkerchief from her belt pouch and calmly wiping her chin.
First note that Egwene is only now able to even embrace the source and we know from history that Forkroot dampens your strength for hours (as we see all through the rest of the book Egwene can channel only a trickle).
It dampens your strength for hours if you take a strong dose. The dose Egwene was given knocked her out for a few minutes, and a couple of minutes later, in the carriage, Egwene was confident of being able to defeat five Aes Sedai.
If, as you contend, Silviana could only hold the shield due to the forkroot, why didn't Egwene say that? Why say, "Except Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope that she could break the woman's shield"? If the Forkroot was the only reason Silviana could hold the shield, Egwene would have thought so.
This quote gives absolutely no indication that Barasine alone is capable of holding a shield on Egwene for long!
Well, of course it doesn't! But this quote does:
“Why both of us?” Katerine wanted to know, which earned her a wry glance from Barasine. If only one were sent, it surely would not
be Katerine, who stood higher.
Egwene doesn't even indicate any surprise at this move. If Barasine couldn't shield Egwene on her own, wouldn't Egwene have thought of that, and wouldn't Silviana have mentioned that as one of her reasons?
Then let's take this into consideration:
TGS
News in TAR
The two glanced at her with annoyance. "The shield," Barasine said. "We've been instructed to always have at least two to maintain it."
"Oh, for the. . . ." Egwene took a deep breath. "If I vow not to embrace the Power until I am properly back in the custody of another Red sister, will that be enough for you?"
The two regarded her with suspicion.
"I suspected as much," Egwene said. She turned to a group of novices who were standing in a side corridor, pretending to scrub the tiles on the side wall while they gawked at Egwene.
"You," Egwene said, pointing to one of them. "Marsial, isn't it?"
"Yes, Mother," the girl squeaked.
"Go and fetch us some forkroot tea. Katerine should have some at the study of the Mistress of Novices. It's not far. Tell her that Barasine requested it for use on me; bring it to my quarters."
The novice scrambled off to do as asked.
"I'll dose myself with that, and then at least one of you can go," Egwene said. "Your Ajah is collapsing. They're going to need all of the clear minds they can get; maybe you can convince your sisters that it is unwise to let Elaida execute Silviana."
The two Reds glanced at each other uncertainly. Then the spindly one whose name Egwene didn't know cursed softly and hurried away with a flurry of rustling skirts. Barasine called after her, but the woman didn't return.
Barasine glanced at Egwene, muttered something under her breath, but remained in place. "We're waiting for that forkroot," she said, staring Egwene in the eyes. "Keep moving on to your quarters."
Always instructed to have at least 2 maintaining the shield (implying that if weaker Sisters were holding it there may be need for more),
TGS
News in TAR
The two glanced at her with annoyance. "The shield," Barasine said. "We've been instructed to always have at least two to maintain it."
"Oh, for the. . . ." Egwene took a deep breath. "If I vow not to embrace the Power until I am properly back in the custody of another Red sister, will that be enough for you?"
The two regarded her with suspicion.
"I suspected as much," Egwene said. She turned to a group of novices who were standing in a side corridor, pretending to scrub the tiles on the side wall while they gawked at Egwene.
"You," Egwene said, pointing to one of them. "Marsial, isn't it?"
"Yes, Mother," the girl squeaked.
"Go and fetch us some forkroot tea. Katerine should have some at the study of the Mistress of Novices. It's not far. Tell her that Barasine requested it for use on me; bring it to my quarters."
The novice scrambled off to do as asked.
"I'll dose myself with that, and then at least one of you can go," Egwene said. "Your Ajah is collapsing. They're going to need all of the clear minds they can get; maybe you can convince your sisters that it is unwise to let Elaida execute Silviana."
The two Reds glanced at each other uncertainly. Then the spindly one whose name Egwene didn't know cursed softly and hurried away with a flurry of rustling skirts. Barasine called after her, but the woman didn't return.
Barasine glanced at Egwene, muttered something under her breath, but remained in place. "We're waiting for that forkroot," she said, staring Egwene in the eyes. "Keep moving on to your quarters."
Always instructed to have at least 2 maintaining the shield (implying that if weaker Sisters were holding it there may be need for more),
Implying the opposite, actually. It means that one is enough, but they want more around Egwene.
Barasine muttering under her breath and calling for the other Red to return ... and there is no evidence that the other one even left the link ... no reason to assume Barasine wasn't in control of a link and the other woman's strength was still there.
You contradict yourself. If the other were still in the link, Barasine doesn't have to call her back, does she?
Also, do note that Daigian, Elza and Erian are apparently enough to hold Semirhage.
There were several others in the hallway with her—Daigian, Erian, Elza—whose turn it was to maintain Semirhage's shield. Aside from Cadsuane, each Aes Sedai in the camp took turns. It was too dangerous to risk forcing the duty only on the Aes Sedai of lesser stature, lest they grow weary. The shield had to remain strong. Light only knew what would happen if Semirhage got free.
Since Daigian is extremely weak, and Elza is too weak to Travel, this means that the weakest AS, a somewhat weak AS, and a middling AS can hold Semirhage herself. And from Cadsuane's statement, even these three are an extra precaution. This clearly implies that even women weaker than Barasine can hold the shield on Egwene.
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM
3597 Views
Yes.
- 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM
1940 Views
No.
- 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM
1739 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me
- 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM
1644 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease.
- 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM
1871 Views
Three things:
- 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM
1705 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books...
- 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM
1676 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work.
- 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM
1711 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal...
- 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM
1584 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue?
- 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM
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I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM*
- 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM
1024 Views
not really
- 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM
1689 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong
- 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM
1624 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM*
- 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM
1003 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power
- 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM
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I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though
- 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM
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I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity
- 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM
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hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex
- 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM
1500 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV
- 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM
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We never really get a feel for their relative strengths
- 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM
1464 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength...
- 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM
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you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength
- 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM
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Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal...
- 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM
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where is that quote my friend?
- 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM
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PoD: The Breaking Storm
- 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM
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Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne
- 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM
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That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means...
- 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM
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Don't be absurd...
- 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM
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she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian
- 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
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"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..."
- 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM
1673 Views
And yet...
- 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM
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No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle...
- 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM
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Here are te quotes...
- 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM
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Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana?
- 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM
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It might interest you to know that that was Katerine!
- 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM
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Oh nonsense
- 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM
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But that's his point.
- 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM
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its a useless point
- 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM
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I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
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Yes, utterly useless...
- 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM
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Dude, you need to re-read the books...
- 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM
1489 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
- 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM
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Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
- 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
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potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal.
- 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM
1462 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
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Re:
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
1547 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
1547 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
- 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM
1423 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
- 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM
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which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being
- 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM
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Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years
- 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM
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Re: Yes.
- 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM
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You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
- 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
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where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak
- 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM
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Nope...
- 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM
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now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
- 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
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- 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
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Nope...
- 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM
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all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM
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Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM
1527 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced
- 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM
1563 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
- 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM
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Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
- 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM
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Thanks for the quote
- 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM
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perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin
- 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
1496 Views
- 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
1496 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM
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that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW
- 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM
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Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
- 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
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- 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
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Mesaana
- 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM
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agreed
- 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM
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Re: agreed
- 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM
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very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
- 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM
1455 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
- 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM
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Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
- 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM
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OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels.
- 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM
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"clear evidence"
- 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM
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Laughable interpretation...
- 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
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Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
- 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM
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couple of thoughts here
- 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM
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Re: couple of thoughts here
- 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM
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that's what I said! EDIT
- 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM
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Well...
- 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM
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Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
- 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
1404 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well
- 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM
1429 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
- 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM
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Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
- 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM
1566 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
- 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
1544 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT
- 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM
1498 Views
Dude...
- 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM
1455 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower!
- 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM
1568 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question...
- 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM
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because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot
- 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM
1437 Views
She knows but she doesn't know?
- 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM
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She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability
- 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM
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And she doesn't know any details...
- 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM
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this conversation is so pointless
- 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM
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Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
- 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM
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Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
- 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM
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Of course its obvious now!
- 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM
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it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her
- 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM
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Shielding
- 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM
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Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
- 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM
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Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
- 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM
1658 Views
There is, actually...
- 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM
1412 Views
Meh
- 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM
1557 Views
Well...
- 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM
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Re: Well...
- 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
1524 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength
- 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM
1425 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
- 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM
1649 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed
- 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM
1546 Views
astounding "evidence"
- 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM
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Re: astounding "evidence"
- 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM
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thanks
- 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM
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Re: thanks
- 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM
1441 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part
- 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM
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Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part
- 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM
1570 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
- 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM
1518 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
- 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM
1568 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM
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Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM
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Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM
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I don't get the logic here...
- 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM
1562 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve
- 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM
1491 Views
And...?
- 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM
1506 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies.
- 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM
1432 Views
That was my interpretation too
- 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM
1476 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM
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The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline
- 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM
1505 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more
- 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM
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Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM
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Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM
1483 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed
- 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM
1437 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM
1533 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM
1369 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential
- 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM
1567 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
- 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM
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Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
- 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM
1544 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance
- 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM
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How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM*
- 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM
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Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least?
- 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM
1398 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken.
- 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM
1466 Views

*NM*