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Re: Well... Sidious Send a noteboard - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
What we have is that Erian, Daigian and Elza can safely shield Semirhage, Mylen can shield three strong AS, and Amys struggles to shield Egwene. That's evidence enough for me.


Well if you believe that, then shielding can never be used as a marker of strength because your suggestion places skill in such a high regard that it can make the shielder magnitudes stronger.

Which I think is wrong. Nynaeve can't believe that Berowin can hold her stating that a woman of that power cannot hold her alone. And we know that Berowin has a talent as surely as Androl has one for gateways. Nynaeve's statement proves that skill doesn't increase shielding ability all that much, especially because she makes no discrimination between the Kin and Aes Sedai holding her. Not only that, but she's never mentioned the relevance of the group that's holding her e.g the Seafolk. Shielding is shielding.

Two women can probably hold a woman of any strength... They held Nynaeve. The third woman for Semirhage is insurance, as is the case for two holding Egwene who is a flight risk. We know that Egwene can come close to breaking a strong Wise One's shield, so obviously the Aes Sedai added an extra one. Even Katerine bitched about being the redundant shielder.
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This message last edited by Sidious on 14/12/2010 at 10:55:26 AM
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3037 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1380 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1225 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 689 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1164 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1391 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1146 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1142 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1158 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1088 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1175 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 759 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 960 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1267 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1168 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1114 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 740 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1139 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1050 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1172 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 945 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1061 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1077 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1087 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1075 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 913 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1218 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1231 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1111 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1065 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 894 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 974 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 880 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1007 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1042 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1057 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 980 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1036 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1147 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1141 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1074 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1300 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1063 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1085 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 888 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 998 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1015 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1089 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1041 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 980 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 994 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1065 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 967 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 941 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1006 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1037 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1048 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1073 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 911 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1030 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 890 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1114 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1054 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1056 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 534 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1048 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1156 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1105 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 818 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 902 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 994 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1051 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 984 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 867 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1004 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 796 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1040 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1086 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1007 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1032 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1002 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1201 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1135 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 897 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 971 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 850 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 886 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1070 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1035 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1079 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 920 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1010 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1044 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1060 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 997 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 718 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1044 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 970 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 850 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1074 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 911 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 933 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 945 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1034 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 977 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1048 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 929 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 932 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1005 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1006 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 949 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1009 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 968 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 969 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 816 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 856 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 870 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1059 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 894 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2406 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 993 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1112 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 910 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1002 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1026 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1000 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 930 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 909 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1134 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1036 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1059 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1049 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1064 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1197 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 897 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 889 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1008 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1009 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1000 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 979 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1036 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 960 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1009 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1039 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 788 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1010 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1015 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 913 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 948 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1091 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1083 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 943 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 616 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 941 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 981 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 968 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 993 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1003 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 992 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1060 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 683 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 926 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 991 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1061 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 870 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1049 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1045 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 955 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1050 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 932 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1031 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1184 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1062 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1146 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 965 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 701 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 952 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 955 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1084 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 934 Views
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