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Re: Egwene, a poor leader? Hot Pie Send a noteboard - 16/12/2010 10:53:20 PM
Before I go any further, I will declare that I dislike Egwene as a character. Having said that, after reading TOM, I have a strange feeling about Egwene's future.

It seems to me, that she is a very odd leader, a leader without a power base. When I look at other leaders for the Light, they all have a power base, a group of people who shares something essential with them, a reason to follow them.

Mat has his Band. They follow him to survive till the Last Battle.

Perrin has the Two River folks, and the refuges with him will probably settle into the Two River area. They follow him to have safety and future prosperity in the Two River area.

Rand has the Aiel, who follow him to have a future with honor. Those who don't believe so had already joined the Shaido. Despite the lack of evidence so far, most of the Aiel still believe Rand will bring them great honor, based on faith in dreams, fortellings, and the WO's work behind the scenes. But they do support Rand out of a genuie belief, and they will continue to support Rand as long as they continue to believe in him.

Elayne has the Houses of Andor. They all want safety and prosperity. And when they saw her having the same desire as them, and having the capability of a good Queen, those Houses became her power base.

But who can Egwene rely on? Who form the power base of Egwene? As far as I can tell, Egwene just pit one group of AS against another group of AS, and hang on to the position without any group to call her own. Even the Green did not support her any stronger than any other Ajah, as can be seen from the secret Hall meeting. I think her lack of a power base is due to her lacking an identity of her own.

As I think harder on this, I believe based on Egwene's character growth so far, she is not fit for a leader. Let us Look back into her history. In EoTW, she want to be the best water carrier. When She met the Aiel Wise Ones, she want to be the best Aiel. When she joins the rebels, she want to be the best AS. She would take up the traits of whoever she come in contact with, and grow into that role very quickly.

That, to me, is the trait of a Great Follower. She would be a Great Administrator, after someone else had set up all the rules. In fact, Rand saw through this, and ask her to gather the world's army for him. That is percisely the job of an administrator.

An administrator does not need a power base, it only needs to evenly apply the rules given. A leader on the other hand, needs to have a vision, an idea that her followers can aspire to, and a way to realize that vision.


She can follow the rules very well, and take advantage of the rules very well. Her time with the Rebel AS had proven so. But so far, I don't see her coming up with any good rules, a vision of her own. Her flip-flop on the Three Oaths. Her insistence on the Tests. Her denial of her Dream about alliance with the Seanchan. She is not a good leader. John McCain was captured and tortured in Vietnam. And I am not sure if Egwene can claim her experience with the Seanchan is worse than John McCain's. John McCain can go to Vietnam without his personal grudges. Can Egwene do the same? If she want to be a good political leader, she must be able to do that, and put aside her personal feelings.


Egwene's a good leader for Aes Sedai if you don't mind them continuing down the road of complete diasaster. But she's a horrible person, just absoultely horrible. As littletempest said though, she's immune to criticism in the books due to her 'Mary Sue' status and it's sneer worthy at this point imo.

...I'm on the fence with Elayne usually but at least you can argue in favor of Elayne caring for something greater than herself (people of Andor) and have some redeeming qualities. Egwene on the other hand....if the Dark One had had a clue, he could have done as much damage if not more arguebly by focusing his efforts on Egwene instead of Rand throughout the books but that's here nor there at this point.
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Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 05:59:15 PM 2413 Views
Egwene isn't supposed to be a leader. She's a dictator and a politician. - 16/12/2010 08:21:13 PM 1588 Views
Well! No love lost there - 17/12/2010 01:52:59 PM 1078 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 09:35:44 PM 1363 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 10:53:20 PM 1286 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 03:07:40 AM 1362 Views
Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are? - 17/12/2010 04:52:34 AM 1167 Views
Re: Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are? - 17/12/2010 05:44:30 AM 1239 Views
That was the case a few books back - 17/12/2010 07:44:32 AM 1248 Views
Re: That was the case a few books back - 17/12/2010 10:14:36 AM 1255 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 02:30:48 PM 1315 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 08:25:39 PM 1066 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 18/12/2010 05:06:21 AM 1244 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 19/12/2010 08:41:31 PM 1157 Views
Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. *NM* - 20/12/2010 12:14:55 AM 695 Views
Re: Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. - 20/12/2010 01:24:12 AM 1192 Views
And the most painful torments were caused by Egwene - 20/12/2010 09:31:44 AM 1305 Views
That's not quite true. - 20/12/2010 06:47:33 PM 1109 Views
That's not quite accurate. - 21/12/2010 01:22:26 AM 1354 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 20/12/2010 12:57:42 AM 1076 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 20/12/2010 02:02:05 AM 1224 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 22/12/2010 07:08:37 AM 1151 Views
She has the same power base as any Amyrlin - the Aes Sedai, the artisans, Guards & citizens of TV - 17/12/2010 05:51:20 PM 1239 Views
Ta'veren vs. Mary Sue - 17/12/2010 07:33:28 PM 1648 Views
I see them as being the same thing. - 17/12/2010 08:11:30 PM 1251 Views
I don't think the case can be made for Rand having it easy - 17/12/2010 11:04:58 PM 1150 Views
I would say that in the grand scheme of things, Rand's had good to balance out the bad. - 20/12/2010 06:27:35 PM 1142 Views
Funniest statement I've ever seen on here. - 18/12/2010 05:22:28 AM 1244 Views
Agree with your comments. - 20/12/2010 03:12:32 PM 1596 Views
You need to post more about Egwene - 17/12/2010 08:16:19 PM 1223 Views
Nah. Just a hyopcrite. *NM* - 17/12/2010 09:28:28 PM 665 Views
Yes, but for completely different reasons... - 18/12/2010 12:35:23 AM 1269 Views
Yes, communication is key. - 18/12/2010 05:32:01 AM 1120 Views
You think Egwene has more power than Tuon? - 18/12/2010 12:27:01 PM 1095 Views
Re: You think Egwene has more power than Tuon? - 18/12/2010 02:41:25 PM 1010 Views
Definitely... - 18/12/2010 03:24:12 PM 1118 Views
Where does the 200000 number come from? *NM* - 18/12/2010 03:36:22 PM 603 Views
That's not right... - 19/12/2010 12:56:25 AM 1100 Views
Re: That's not right... - 19/12/2010 11:38:54 PM 1225 Views
What's said above. Plus - 19/12/2010 11:00:42 AM 1073 Views
More explanations... - 20/12/2010 02:51:25 AM 1108 Views
Re: More explanations... - 20/12/2010 09:40:46 AM 1179 Views
Aiel, Cairhien and Andor are NOT under Egwenes power. - 20/12/2010 02:46:44 PM 1195 Views
Re: More explanations... - 20/12/2010 03:58:58 PM 1279 Views
An Amyrlin doesn't really have a power base. - 18/12/2010 05:43:12 AM 1203 Views
I think comparing Egwene to McCain is asking for trouble on several fronts. - 20/12/2010 12:33:04 AM 1095 Views
She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 02:41:32 AM 1121 Views
RJ is more powerful. - 20/12/2010 03:25:49 AM 1259 Views
I'd advise a re-read. Of ToM, and maybe the whole series... - 20/12/2010 03:58:03 AM 1160 Views
Re: I'd advise a re-read. Of ToM, and maybe the whole series... - 21/12/2010 09:08:20 PM 1156 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 09:46:22 AM 1203 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 09:55:03 AM 1081 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 10:27:59 AM 1164 Views
One example of this... - 20/12/2010 11:15:03 AM 1196 Views
Re: One example of this... - 20/12/2010 11:22:10 AM 1056 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 11:08:35 AM 1142 Views
That's not quite true. - 20/12/2010 10:35:45 PM 1162 Views

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