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I disagree in some ways Sidious Send a noteboard - 25/09/2009 03:23:35 PM
without cadsuane, he and nynaeve would've been alone at shadar logoth, since he didn't consider having people there to guard them.

so i'd say he'd be doing pretty crappily.


Egwene's statement implies that Rand can't do anything right by himself, but also suggests that she is the one who should be guiding him. I think those two are going to have words.


If we put Egwene's comment in context there is good reason to believe what I and Sidious have said. Just a chapter before Egwene's comment we have Rand's discussion with Nynaeve about Egwene wanting to control and manipulate him. At first Nynaeve defends Egwene, but then Rand reminds her that she is Aes Sedai and Amyrlin and that she would try to control him. Nynaeve has nothing to respond with because she knows Rand is right.

So we have Rand telling us that Egwene would try to control him, and Nynaeve recognizing it for truth and not arguing against it. Then a chapter later we have Egwene thinking about how she needs to control Rand. The evidence is overwhelming in favor of what I said originally and what Sidious is apparently agreeing with me on. Egwene is arrogant as ever.


But is it really arrogance? There's no proof that Rand knows what to do in any situation - he just happens to get certain things right, and has Cadsuane to agree or disagree with him.

Egwene's reasoning is that they come from the same village, and therefore their start in life has been the same, as well as their backgrounds. Egwene has always thought she knows better than him, and he feels the same - you can see it in their fights in EoTW. Egwene thinks she knows what's best for Rand because she's always considered herself to be more mature - she was Nynaeve's apprentice while Rand was playing practical jokes along with Mat. It's just the way they grew up - Rand still acts childishly around Egwene and resists her advice more than anyone else's, and she struggles to agree with him even if he's right. The fact that she can Dream makes it worse because she thinks she knows what's best for him based on her prophecies - so she's as certain of some of his destiny as she is of the Tower's.

I still think she's there to oppose and help Rand. She's saidar personified, corny as that sounds. She'll end up being Latra Posae Decume to Rand, which will be disastrous and good.
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Your thoughts about TGS - chapter 2 *spoilers* - 24/09/2009 03:17:07 PM 8560 Views
Mind-numbingly boring... - 24/09/2009 04:22:52 PM 3022 Views
I thought it was excellent *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:32:05 PM 1666 Views
Only for someone who can't read between the lines. - 24/09/2009 07:40:18 PM 2839 Views
I adored it. *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:37:38 PM 1513 Views
Agreed, but only because of the incredibly slow audio reading. FORTY-FIVE minutes for ONE chapter!!! *NM* - 25/09/2009 06:08:27 AM 1560 Views
EVERY Chapter in the entire series is read that way. - 25/09/2009 01:40:07 PM 2514 Views
Yup, they're a lot of fun to listen to. - 26/09/2009 08:26:52 PM 2410 Views
Agreed. As for the speed issue... - 28/09/2009 02:11:13 PM 2364 Views
Cannoli’s journal of listening to “The Nature of Pain.” - 28/09/2009 01:03:35 PM 2986 Views
Chapter summary - 24/09/2009 04:31:01 PM 3122 Views
sounds like its RJs work from the dialogue *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:33:57 PM 1435 Views
I agree - I'm certain it was RJ *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:36:12 PM 1689 Views
Agreed. It was RJ through and through. *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:36:13 PM 1478 Views
+1 - 25/09/2009 06:03:44 AM 2511 Views
I should disagree - 26/09/2009 10:34:58 PM 2640 Views
Jordan left tons of background info in notes - 27/09/2009 07:36:11 PM 2562 Views
Re: Chapter summary - 24/09/2009 06:50:36 PM 2629 Views
Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower? - 24/09/2009 04:44:28 PM 2677 Views
Well, she's replaced everything else in her life with the Tower. - 24/09/2009 04:47:05 PM 2685 Views
I always thought it was the small town thing - 24/09/2009 04:50:19 PM 2685 Views
Could it be that Fain could have contaminated her in tFOH? - 24/09/2009 04:51:56 PM 2580 Views
Can Fain do that? - 24/09/2009 04:53:57 PM 2562 Views
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So you're saying that an antagonist is being portrayed as idiotic in this series? No way! - 24/09/2009 04:58:15 PM 2648 Views
I this case, I'm quite forgiving - 24/09/2009 05:36:59 PM 2541 Views
What has Gawyn done that demonstrates stupidity? - 28/09/2009 05:21:39 AM 2563 Views
Ambitious people are like that - 24/09/2009 05:08:27 PM 2627 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower? - 24/09/2009 06:01:46 PM 2597 Views
I don't think its necessarily for the tower itself - 24/09/2009 08:30:15 PM 2535 Views
This made my morning happy. - 24/09/2009 04:45:08 PM 2579 Views
I think it's different. - 24/09/2009 05:51:11 PM 2707 Views
True. - 24/09/2009 07:21:36 PM 2657 Views
Re: True. - 24/09/2009 07:30:06 PM 2541 Views
Re: I think it's different. - 25/09/2009 03:24:22 AM 2565 Views
There's still a difference... - 25/09/2009 04:28:55 AM 2434 Views
Re: There's still a difference... - 26/09/2009 12:30:28 PM 2485 Views
But... - 26/09/2009 03:44:31 PM 2484 Views
Re: But... - 26/09/2009 04:08:35 PM 2431 Views
She could have not bungled up... - 26/09/2009 05:17:02 PM 2273 Views
In PoD, it is revealed that Alviarin makes Elaida swear obedience to her. - 26/09/2009 07:48:01 PM 2728 Views
he's saying that. - 26/09/2009 10:12:16 PM 2371 Views
She also deposes Alviarin... - 26/09/2009 10:47:07 PM 2424 Views
Egwene matured a bit, BUT - 24/09/2009 04:51:53 PM 2510 Views
Ever had rancid oil? - 01/10/2009 08:42:59 PM 3269 Views
Is Alviarin finished? - 24/09/2009 04:52:31 PM 2645 Views
Two possibilities that come to mind - 24/09/2009 05:11:41 PM 2605 Views
Or - 24/09/2009 05:45:36 PM 2692 Views
Best idea ^ *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:27:15 PM 1795 Views
Egwene knows about the letter, and soon the BA hunters will too. - 24/09/2009 07:46:34 PM 2572 Views
She's got to be 'raised' to the shawl first, to take the 4 oaths. - 24/09/2009 10:33:42 PM 2538 Views
No they don't - 24/09/2009 11:03:09 PM 2387 Views
Oh, I thought you meant Elaida's new obedience oath *NM* - 25/09/2009 09:15:48 AM 1450 Views
Her part will probably be... - 24/09/2009 06:06:08 PM 2553 Views
I think her mission has changed. - 24/09/2009 06:08:11 PM 2333 Views
Re: Is Alviarin finished? - 24/09/2009 09:08:29 PM 2199 Views
Good 1st chapter of Egwene's plotline! - 24/09/2009 05:15:32 PM 2577 Views
Painful to listen to - 24/09/2009 05:33:22 PM 2589 Views
Not finished it yet - 24/09/2009 05:42:18 PM 2689 Views
WHITE! - 24/09/2009 06:20:43 PM 2562 Views
Not White! (spoilers) And Seanchan attack idea. - 28/09/2009 02:26:06 AM 2656 Views
Yes, Mesaana's plain white dress seems somewhat peculiar - 24/09/2009 06:43:45 PM 2697 Views
But what if she has no choice but to stay? - 24/09/2009 08:02:01 PM 2339 Views
Are you kidding? Moridin would kill her - 24/09/2009 10:50:34 PM 2402 Views
She doesn't.. - 25/09/2009 06:36:22 AM 2374 Views
If this is true, it could be a ploy - 25/09/2009 03:06:45 AM 2521 Views
Plus, it avoids getting tangled in the Black Ajah hunt - 25/09/2009 03:11:38 AM 2310 Views
I struggle to think of Mesaana as a novice - 25/09/2009 05:16:57 AM 2592 Views
I disagree - 25/09/2009 11:08:34 AM 2603 Views
nice idea *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:29:56 PM 1403 Views
I liked it *Spoilers* - 24/09/2009 05:49:41 PM 2536 Views
I think... - 24/09/2009 07:01:42 PM 2687 Views
Re: I think... - 24/09/2009 07:33:34 PM 2265 Views
Re: I think... - 24/09/2009 08:00:09 PM 2674 Views
Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well? - 24/09/2009 08:07:38 PM 2426 Views
Re: Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well? - 25/09/2009 03:43:22 PM 2527 Views
Chosen have been mindtrapped before - 25/09/2009 04:32:18 PM 2041 Views
Re: I think... - 25/09/2009 07:25:34 PM 2468 Views
Surely worse happened in the War of Power though before the seals were laid - 24/09/2009 07:58:54 PM 2487 Views
I was totally caught off guard! - 24/09/2009 05:50:39 PM 2515 Views
I all excited! - 24/09/2009 06:26:23 PM 2413 Views
Yay - 24/09/2009 07:00:41 PM 2709 Views
Egwene is arrogant as ever...thinking Rand can't possibly get along without guidance *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:25:24 PM 1637 Views
is she wrong? - 24/09/2009 08:34:44 PM 2556 Views
The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. Two afterthouts as edits - 24/09/2009 08:43:38 PM 2742 Views
Re: The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. - 24/09/2009 08:46:09 PM 2505 Views
I'm sure Moridin knows how to too - 27/09/2009 03:59:49 PM 2404 Views
Re: is she wrong? - 25/09/2009 03:38:09 AM 2655 Views
Re: is she wrong? - 25/09/2009 04:30:28 AM 2422 Views
You're totally wrong - 25/09/2009 02:23:27 PM 2562 Views
Re: You're totally wrong - 25/09/2009 03:32:22 PM 2486 Views
but she was absolutely essential in the successful completion - 29/09/2009 02:55:13 PM 2772 Views
I like Egwene but I didn't like her statement - 25/09/2009 05:03:33 AM 2693 Views
I agree, and one more reason why I agree - 25/09/2009 02:27:44 PM 2613 Views
I disagree in some ways - 25/09/2009 03:23:35 PM 2326 Views
I agree, and that is Rand's problem in the first place. - 25/09/2009 07:27:22 PM 2513 Views
Rand should invoke the 'Law of War' against the DO - 25/09/2009 06:19:56 AM 2470 Views
She wants part of the glory. *NM* - 25/09/2009 06:31:47 AM 1375 Views
What will happen first: black ajah hunt ends or Seanchan attack the WT? - 24/09/2009 08:38:43 PM 2676 Views
I can never decide what I think will happen - 24/09/2009 08:44:03 PM 2602 Views
Re: I can never decide what I think will happen - 24/09/2009 09:25:18 PM 2495 Views
I disagree, the Rebels are better protected - 24/09/2009 09:36:19 PM 2556 Views
I agree with you. Rebels are harder to take (rebels have Asha'man too) *NM* - 24/09/2009 09:59:10 PM 1439 Views
So do the Tower Reds, only the Seanchan don't know that yet... - 25/09/2009 04:46:17 AM 2358 Views
Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property" - 29/09/2009 03:09:28 PM 2416 Views
Re: Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property" - 29/09/2009 03:23:45 PM 2509 Views
OK, I didn't remember the details correctly - 29/09/2009 03:38:16 PM 2459 Views
Re: OK, I didn't remember the details correctly - 29/09/2009 04:11:22 PM 2571 Views
Harnan's tattoo is of a hawk, not a raven - 29/09/2009 04:37:27 PM 2614 Views
Oops. Then no other interpretations. - 29/09/2009 04:51:07 PM 2482 Views
Potential for conflicting prophecies? - 26/09/2009 08:49:04 PM 2292 Views
no.. - 26/09/2009 09:12:52 PM 2417 Views
The title of book 13... - 24/09/2009 09:19:17 PM 2418 Views
Swing and a miss. - 24/09/2009 10:33:46 PM 2596 Views
As said - 25/09/2009 06:37:46 AM 2307 Views
Or maybe the fortress in the blight? - 25/09/2009 12:51:05 PM 2416 Views
Yes, those Towers... - 25/09/2009 03:10:40 PM 2487 Views
Seems unlikely to me. - 25/09/2009 01:44:27 PM 2529 Views
Yeah, that's possible. - 25/09/2009 03:11:33 PM 2442 Views
Egwene's surprising decision... - 25/09/2009 08:38:51 PM 2364 Views
I think it's an exaggeration - 25/09/2009 09:01:22 PM 2498 Views
Re: Egwene's surprising decision... - 26/09/2009 12:58:51 AM 2518 Views
The Seanchan attack will happen first - 24/09/2009 10:47:50 PM 2351 Views
I think Egwene is building up an immunity to forkroot. *NM* - 25/09/2009 02:03:58 AM 1459 Views
I'm kinda hoping Mesaana hands them all in a basket to Moridin. - 25/09/2009 02:51:55 AM 2268 Views
Egwene's respect reminds me of Niall's comment to Morgase - 25/09/2009 03:39:19 AM 2388 Views
Both at once, I don't think it will be a neat A then B, or B then A - 25/09/2009 03:53:30 AM 2439 Views
How would they possibly hear of Turan in Arad Doman? - 25/09/2009 02:34:34 PM 2439 Views
Raken - they are used as messengers - 25/09/2009 02:43:29 PM 2465 Views
Egwene... surprised me. It was great. - 24/09/2009 08:49:36 PM 2314 Views
I didn't catch any hints as to Mesaana's identity. Were there any? - 24/09/2009 08:51:23 PM 2375 Views
Katerine is Black Ajah - 24/09/2009 10:48:14 PM 2465 Views
Also... this makes me miss RJ even more - 24/09/2009 08:52:52 PM 2709 Views
I experienced just the opposite - 25/09/2009 06:40:53 AM 2561 Views
Totally disagree - 25/09/2009 06:58:36 AM 2365 Views
This was a truely beautiful chapter *NM* - 24/09/2009 10:22:48 PM 1427 Views
Really? - 24/09/2009 11:37:59 PM 2391 Views
Daaayyum - when did Elaida become such a baller/shot caller? - 24/09/2009 11:23:41 PM 2523 Views
I can't wait to actually read the chapter-- I thought it was very well written *NM* - 25/09/2009 12:18:48 AM 1401 Views
In regards to Alviarin. - 25/09/2009 01:32:09 AM 2518 Views
Could Elaida pass a 4th Oath? - 25/09/2009 05:13:08 AM 2462 Views
The Black Ajah would never stand for it, even if the other sisters would - 25/09/2009 06:38:19 AM 2642 Views
And therein lies Elaida's genius... - 25/09/2009 07:08:48 PM 2595 Views
Fain as the source of much of the Tower's woes - 25/09/2009 05:30:49 AM 2428 Views
No one else thinks Fain has had any influence on Elaida's erratic behavior? *NM* - 25/09/2009 05:32:05 PM 1480 Views
I agree. Fain is affecting her, for certain. NT *NM* - 28/09/2009 02:30:45 AM 1514 Views
What about Mesaana? - 25/09/2009 06:03:41 PM 2320 Views
Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 03:34:35 PM 2471 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 03:38:39 PM 2455 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 03:40:32 PM 2428 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 04:16:16 PM 2462 Views
We already saw Mat confront Egwene in Salidar. What more - 25/09/2009 04:18:21 PM 2598 Views
Re: We already saw Mat confront Egwene in Salidar. What more - 25/09/2009 04:37:04 PM 2458 Views
That's not his argument though - 25/09/2009 04:34:35 PM 2305 Views
Ah okay. - 25/09/2009 04:36:00 PM 2427 Views
She seemed okay with it in KoD - 25/09/2009 04:38:53 PM 2517 Views
I think... - 25/09/2009 03:47:26 PM 2556 Views
Nice ideas! *NM* - 25/09/2009 03:51:01 PM 2179 Views
That is really good idea - 25/09/2009 08:12:34 PM 2679 Views
Though... - 26/09/2009 01:32:18 PM 2504 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 06:15:56 PM 2306 Views
egwene and elaida's 4th oath - 25/09/2009 03:51:36 PM 2484 Views
Egwene's Hypocrisy here is astounding: - 29/09/2009 03:39:25 AM 2459 Views
Egwene and Mesaana - 25/09/2009 06:07:37 PM 2483 Views
Come now...even though Mesaana is whimpy for a Forsaken, she would wipe the floor with Egwene... - 25/09/2009 06:10:13 PM 2498 Views
Alright, I *may* have overlooked that significant point. - 25/09/2009 06:21:09 PM 2324 Views
Agreed - 26/09/2009 06:36:01 AM 2395 Views
Depends on where the battle takes place. TAR = Egwene win. - 02/10/2009 06:10:07 PM 2483 Views
Egwene would need to lead a circle or use an angreal to beat her. *NM* - 25/09/2009 06:31:42 PM 1459 Views
Unless it was based on willpower as in a conflict within Tel'Aran'Rhiod - 25/09/2009 07:19:50 PM 2420 Views
Humph. - 26/09/2009 03:27:09 AM 2372 Views
She was overconfident - 26/09/2009 03:24:51 PM 2453 Views
A lie by Elaida? - 27/09/2009 02:31:36 PM 2691 Views
Re: A lie by Elaida? - 27/09/2009 02:50:49 PM 2396 Views
Re: A lie by Elaida? - 27/09/2009 03:01:06 PM 2423 Views
I don't think it covers things like that - 27/09/2009 04:10:05 PM 2386 Views
She believes what she said *NM* - 28/09/2009 04:51:52 AM 1424 Views
Remember, perspective. - 29/09/2009 12:14:59 AM 2270 Views
It might well be true - 29/09/2009 12:38:20 AM 2424 Views
Well... that elicited quite a reaction. - 28/09/2009 06:25:52 AM 2236 Views
I had many of those same thoughts. - 28/09/2009 05:27:43 PM 2457 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts. - 28/09/2009 06:42:56 PM 2256 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts. - 28/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 2387 Views
I've just learned to skip any female POV's written by RJ - 29/09/2009 04:38:45 AM 2427 Views
Hmmm.... - 29/09/2009 05:30:44 AM 2448 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 29/09/2009 06:26:17 AM 2466 Views
Ridiculous - 30/09/2009 12:34:07 AM 2341 Views
Very. - 30/09/2009 02:40:07 AM 2421 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 30/09/2009 03:00:01 AM 2473 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 30/09/2009 04:32:14 AM 2449 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 01/10/2009 03:23:21 AM 2420 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 01/10/2009 04:51:14 AM 2406 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 03/10/2009 01:57:24 PM 2755 Views
That's Mesaana's purpose actually *NM* - 06/11/2009 07:03:12 AM 1376 Views
Elaida, Formidable? - 29/09/2009 11:48:04 PM 2607 Views
How do you figure? - 30/09/2009 12:15:47 AM 2187 Views
Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? - 30/09/2009 12:35:07 AM 2463 Views
Re: Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? - 30/09/2009 02:29:37 AM 2341 Views
Broke the Black Ajah's hold on the Amyrlin seat??????? - 30/09/2009 06:09:08 PM 2282 Views
Ignore *NM* - 30/09/2009 06:20:12 PM 1424 Views
Oh yeah, and... - 29/09/2009 04:22:57 AM 2581 Views
Egwene in this chapter... - 29/09/2009 05:04:35 AM 2539 Views
Re: Egwene in this chapter... - 29/09/2009 05:59:33 AM 2682 Views
Author thoughts - Audiobook versus reading - 29/09/2009 05:30:39 AM 2400 Views
Yes, I've felt very much the same *NM* - 29/09/2009 12:52:52 PM 1535 Views
A lot of that is the narrator - 29/09/2009 04:36:47 PM 2478 Views
The Dark One's Touch - 30/09/2009 06:21:24 PM 2549 Views
Good point! *NM* - 30/09/2009 06:26:51 PM 1451 Views
Re: The Dark One's Touch - 30/09/2009 06:44:53 PM 2292 Views
What about the person who has the ter'angreal dagger? - 30/09/2009 07:11:18 PM 2231 Views
Re: What about the person who has the ter'angreal dagger? - 30/09/2009 07:17:06 PM 2215 Views
The Irony of Elaida - 30/09/2009 11:10:08 PM 2446 Views
LOL, I agree. - 01/10/2009 02:47:18 AM 2384 Views

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