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Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM

Oh, ok. I always assumed the levels were evenly distributed. Do you know if there exists a large collection of channeler strengths, enough to make a plot?

I guess making a comprehensive list would be like the mother of all those riddles where you get information like "The man in house number two drinks wine" and "The French officer is the neighbour of the man who has a dog".

I'm sure a full list of channelers exists in RJ's notes. I doubt we'll ever see it.

And I don't see why you would want to make a curve. Its not like what RJ said was a hypothesis that has to be proved. This is his world. His word is law.

If RJ said it, why are we discussing it? Do you have a link to the quote?

We're having this discussion because Shannow is a doofus.

Here are the quotes:
For Papazen, while I have spoken of souls being born with the ability to channel in response to questions, I think of it as being genetic also. In the Age of Legends, between 2 and 3% of people had some ability, following a bell curve distribution in strength. For over 3000 years, though, Aes Sedai have been removing men who actually learned to channel from the gene pool. They have been very efficient at this. As a result, the "present day" sees about 1% of the population who can learn to channel, with a much, much smaller percentage of that being born with the spark.

Regarding the percentage of women who could test for the shawl, it would be 62.5% of the bellcurve. I'll leave the maths to you for an idle moment. The question doesn't really apply to men, since the Black Tower accepts anyone who can learn to channel, but if the White Tower limits were applied, it would be roughly 65.4% of the bellcurve. Although, considering the effectiveness question, they should probably set it at the same 62.5%. Again, the maths are all yours. Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels. Remember to integrate this with what I've said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.


These two quotes tell us that there was a bell curve distribution in strength, not strength levels. And the way RJ referred to "the" bell curve in the second quote (which he had previously only used to describe the AoL channelers) makes it clear there's only one bell curve.

There's also this:

LUCKERS
Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).
MARIA SIMONS
Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.


Again, strength in the Power is the "it" in Maria's answer, and obviously most channelers would fall at the mid point.

But really, 67.5% of the channeling population strong enough to be Aes Sedai? Aren't they sending away a majority of the novices and accepted because they aren't strong enough? Or is it because the majority don't have "what it takes to be Aes Sedai"?

It is 62.5%. And the reason we don't see large numbers of Aes Sedai is that they haven't been actively recruiting, like the Black Tower. As we see with the 1000 novices who join the Rebels in response to Egwene's call (only about 200 of them are strong enough to be Aes Sedai), the subset of the population interested in becoming Aes Sedai is a bad sampling for the subset of the population that can become Aes Sedai. And the traditional Tower consisted mostly of women exclusively from the first type of sample.
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Sidious - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 3007 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* TheCrownless - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 800 Views
Androl did. *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 1032 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? TheCrownless - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1307 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1299 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? nigelgoboom - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 944 Views
I think it's slightly off darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1197 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1484 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Sidious - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1243 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications DomA - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1294 Views
Travelling Tor - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1291 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine Sidious - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1301 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine Tor - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1268 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine DomA - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 1145 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine Tor - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1285 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 715 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine DomA - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1359 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 1051 Views
How strong Pevara is... fionwe1987 - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1411 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... DREWRULESWOT! - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 1083 Views
Agreed Sidious - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1203 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? fionwe1987 - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 1158 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve Sidious - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1206 Views
That was disproved long ago... fionwe1987 - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 1203 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' DREWRULESWOT! - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1217 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. Great Lord of Chaos - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 1207 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves DREWRULESWOT! - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 1118 Views
Not true darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 1133 Views
Not accurate darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 1081 Views
The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 1151 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 1129 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 1055 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 1197 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 1164 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 1229 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1223 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 1003 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1313 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 998 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... Tor - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 1088 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 1159 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: Tor - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 1024 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Shannow - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 1032 Views
Re: I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Tor - 28/10/2012 07:44:02 PM 1120 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 1009 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. DomA - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1226 Views
So what's your conclusion? Shannow - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 1009 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 1119 Views
Pretty much... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1198 Views
you do realize that is an impossible question to answer from the books right? darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 07:50:02 PM 1153 Views
Excellent points... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 982 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 1144 Views
You seem confused. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 972 Views
Re: You seem confused. Tor - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 1014 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 963 Views
Re: You seem confused. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 1169 Views
Re: You seem confused. Tor - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 1122 Views
He drew graphs! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 1023 Views
Re: He drew graphs! Tor - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 1111 Views
Re: He drew graphs! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 1034 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 1073 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 1053 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1442 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 1079 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 1186 Views
AS recruiting is minimal darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 1036 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 1021 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: Tor - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 1037 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 1070 Views
Re: Huh? Tor - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 992 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 1023 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... Tor - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 1035 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 1086 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop Tor - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 1116 Views
Geography alone can do this darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 1020 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this Tor - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 996 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 984 Views
Here's why its not random... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 986 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... Tor - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 1165 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 990 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 1036 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 1046 Views
Genetics plays a role darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 1189 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 969 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... Tor - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 1066 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 995 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? Tor - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 963 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 1151 Views
Re: Nope... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 1000 Views
Oh my... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 1048 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! Tor - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 990 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 939 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results Tor - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 1029 Views
LOL darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1588 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same Tor - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 1016 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 1067 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories Tor - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 1022 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 1149 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. Shannow - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 1061 Views
Re: The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. Tor - 28/10/2012 07:27:26 PM 1003 Views
There is not a single quote in the series that states Moiraine is less than half the strength darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 10:31:28 PM 1049 Views
How is this fact? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 1123 Views
Re: How is this fact? Sidious - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 1048 Views
Not so darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 1018 Views
Re: Not so Sidious - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 1109 Views
Sure it is darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 1048 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 1013 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... Sidious - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 1107 Views
Are you blind man? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 1039 Views
Re: Are you blind man? Sidious - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 1072 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 1008 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 1012 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! Tor - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 1031 Views
Well the most obvious thing is that RJ was quoted on the subject any number of times darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 11:34:18 PM 1074 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 1167 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 1152 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 713 Views
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