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The Bell Curve explained... Shannow Send a noteboard - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM
With Cadsuane mid-to-high 30s, Eg/Avi/El at 40, Nynaeve at 65, etc. Androl, meanwhile, is probably around 4 or 5. I see him as similar to Morgase, only a little more powerful.

The problem with Nynaeve at 65 is that it makes zero sense. She's has about 6 women stronger than her in the entire series, and matches mid-level Foresaken strength. No way is she 65.

And given what we know about strength being a bell curve, there's no way exceptionally strong women like Moiraine are going to be below strength 50, which would be the average strength of all channelers.


Here's what we know:

We know with reasonable certainty that the spread of channeling strength from Daigian to Moiraine is about 3 fold. Meaning that Moiraine is about 3 times as strong as Daigian.

We also know that Daigian is so weak that she is barely above Accepted level (making her the absolute bottom of the Aes Sedai strength range).

So we know that the spread of channeling strength from the weakest modern day sister to the strongest category (which included Moiraine, Romanda, Lelaine, Siuan and Elaida) is 3 fold.

We also know from Siuan, that if she was at two thirds of her old strength, she would be as strong as most sisters.

This gives us the strength level of the average sister, which is two thirds of the Moiraine/Siuan level. Meaning that Moiraine was 50% stronger than the average sister.

We further know that according to Aviendha, Egwene can match or exceed the strength level of Amys plus Melaine combined. Amys is just short of Moiraine's strength, while Melaine is stronger than an average sister. Meaning that at the very least, the two of them combined are about two thirds stronger than Moiraine.

E.G.

If Dagian is a 10

It puts the average sister at 20

Moiraine at 30

Amys plus Melaine at about 50 (which then is roughly Egwene's strength level)

We further learn that Moiraine believes that Egwene plus Aviendha could approach Lanfear in strength.

What do you know. Egwene at 50, plus Aviendha at maybe 40 (she's not at her full potential yet), gives you around 90. Not quite Lanfear's strength, but very close to it.


We also know that Egwene believes that she, Romanda and Lelaine together could possibly match a male Forsaken.

Egwene at 50, plus Romanda and Lelaine each at 30, gives you 110.

What do you know, just enough to match a male Forsaken of Rand's strength level.

We see Flinn - the strongest Ashaman, plus two average sisters, match Demandred very closely. Again, what do you know, 2 average sisters at 20 strength each, plus Flinn at around 55 gives you Demandred level of around 95.

We see 5 sisters barely able to hold Logain, who is presumably around a 90 level channeler.

Even if they are all 5 weaker than average (put them at 15 strength), their shield should still be at around 75 strength. And we know that you can be weaker than someone and still hold them shielded if they aren't embracing the source. So a strength of 75 is pretty much spot on to be borderline between what Logain could break free from.

The examples go on and on.

Together it makes a pretty much irrefutable case that the Bell Curve can only fit if the average strength female is around Egwene's level and all modern Aes Sedai fall well below average.

The conclusion is that the Bell Curve applies to the channeling population of the Age of Legends, at which time Egwene would have been an average strength channeler at exactly half the strength of the strongest possible woman.

And all modern Aes Sedai would have been considered below average by some margin. In fact, most of them would have fallen in the lowest 20% of Age of Legends channelers.

This is the only way that all the evidence fits a Bell Curve scenario.
This message last edited by Shannow on 26/10/2012 at 10:29:39 AM
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 3233 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 941 Views
Androl did. *NM* - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 1136 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1440 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1608 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 1089 Views
I think it's slightly off - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1371 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1725 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1381 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1462 Views
Travelling - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1420 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1434 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1396 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 1287 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1452 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 849 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1511 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 1256 Views
How strong Pevara is... - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1621 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 1207 Views
Agreed - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1351 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 1317 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1331 Views
That was disproved long ago... - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 1409 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1358 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 1438 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 1350 Views
Not true - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 1318 Views
Not accurate - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 1238 Views
The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 1290 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 1279 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 1203 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 1335 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 1298 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 1515 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1387 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 1385 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1595 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 1139 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 1242 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 1385 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 1160 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 1167 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 1157 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1359 Views
So what's your conclusion? - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 1133 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 1262 Views
Pretty much... - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1336 Views
Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 1129 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 1374 Views
You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 1106 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 1146 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 1099 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 1389 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 1256 Views
He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 1152 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 1392 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 1211 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 1232 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 1203 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1664 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 1235 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 1319 Views
AS recruiting is minimal - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 1183 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 1188 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 1186 Views
Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 1293 Views
Re: Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 1134 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 1173 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 1167 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 1315 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 1342 Views
Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 1160 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 1131 Views
Not really - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 1130 Views
Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 1130 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 1387 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 1122 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 1184 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 1186 Views
Genetics plays a role - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 1383 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 1094 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 1213 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 1165 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 1186 Views
Nope... - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 1299 Views
Re: Nope... - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 1142 Views
Oh my... - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 1167 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 1141 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 1089 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 1160 Views
LOL - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1815 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 1248 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 1273 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 1161 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 1358 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 1186 Views
How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 1330 Views
Re: How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 1200 Views
Not so - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 1146 Views
Re: Not so - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 1327 Views
Sure it is - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 1281 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 1164 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 1261 Views
Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 1185 Views
Re: Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 1205 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 1140 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 1163 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 1168 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 1307 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 1357 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 839 Views

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