Active Users:1098 Time:31/10/2025 04:46:32 PM
Re: Some more darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM

Thinking about it, its a good choice. He matched Aviendha's work with the river in tGS, and she's level 11, So he'd have to be 6 levels up to be her equal in effect. So level 5 works.

I think you are under the belief that men operate under a different power level structure here, when in fact men simply occupy more levels than women over all. The weakest man and the weakest woman are roughly equal, but there are more strength levels for men as a whole (thus the ++ levels). Matching Aviendha's work at the river simply means he's roughly the same level as she is, or, given his strength with Air, he could actually be weaker overall, but still skilled enough to match her feat. Egwene is 4 levels below Nynaeve, but there is no way Nynaeve could match her cuendillar ability. Naeff is shown to be similar with Air. We know he has less strength than Nynaeve, but his ability with Air is clearly meant to be amazing thus he can match her.


You could equally well place him just below her. She was worried about the pace of his gaining strength, not that he equalled her. We just assumed he had to already be stronger because we thought the upper levels of Aes Sedai were comically weak. But we know now that is not true.

I think the text from Merise's conversation with Cadsuane makes it pretty clear that Narishma is as strong as she is after his most recent jump in Power, if he was still weaker than she was she would not have commented on it IMO. And it seems he gained a pretty significant increase from the time she bonded him as she seems surprised by how quickly he moved up to her strength.


One other thing: I noticed you placed people like Neald, Flinn, and other men at tentatively level 19 as minimum because they can Travel. For men, though, minimum Traveling level would be level 13.

Not true that men would need to be a level 13 to Travel. It's stated outright under the "gateways" entry in the Companion that "the minimum strength required for making a gateway of useful size, large enough to walk through, was 19(7). The minimum strength required to make any gateway at all out of a circle was 21(9)". Androl's Traveling talent is specifically called out in this entry so it seems true for men as well as women. There is no mention that this would be different for men than women. All we know here is that there would be a higher percentage of men who fall into this strength level or higher because men are generally stronger than women, but not always.

I suspect most of these men probably are stronger than level 19, but that's the highest we can reliably place them without more information from the text.

I assume you are trying to include the "dexterity bonus" thus making a man stronger by several levels than a woman who can perform the same OP related task, but without a scale for both dexterity and strength it's impossible to say how this works.

We know that Level 1 female is roughly equal to a ++1 male, but we don't know that a level 2 female is more more/less effective than a level ++2 or if a level 3 female could be more effective than a level ++2 male. There is some disparity between the dexterity bonus and strength because a level 66 man and a level 66 woman are roughly equal.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 01/12/2015 at 07:43:46 PM
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3488 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1259 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1229 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1387 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1263 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1394 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1395 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1571 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1252 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1370 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1401 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1377 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1410 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1423 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1564 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1535 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1504 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1296 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1550 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1406 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1246 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1535 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1360 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1483 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1532 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1309 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1416 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1290 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1249 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1262 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1251 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1303 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1337 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1255 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1595 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1293 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1212 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1234 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 770 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1250 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1317 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1216 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1264 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1266 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 846 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1242 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1252 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1449 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1321 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1332 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1355 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1378 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1292 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1336 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1376 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1218 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1255 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1416 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1254 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1357 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1403 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1207 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1323 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1183 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1185 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1253 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1242 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1407 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1399 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1418 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1777 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1261 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1579 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1186 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1218 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1209 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1157 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1473 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1176 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1273 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1752 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1187 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1401 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1236 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1128 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1174 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1246 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1191 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1198 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 793 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1274 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1110 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1260 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 717 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 738 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1257 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1243 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1174 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1181 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1148 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1122 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1154 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1227 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1158 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1159 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1223 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1149 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1260 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1340 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1240 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1252 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1157 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1249 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1134 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1258 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1199 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1169 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1175 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1142 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1183 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1117 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1242 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 750 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1191 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1138 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1250 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1214 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1197 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1166 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1105 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1159 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1182 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1173 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1148 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1293 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1236 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1341 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1186 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1152 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1200 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1326 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1356 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1211 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1470 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1391 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1382 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1162 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1325 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1219 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1149 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1262 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1236 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1118 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1326 Views

Reply to Message