Active Users:423 Time:14/12/2025 05:00:03 AM
Who should defer to whom? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM

Some interesting tidbits when you start looking at which AS on each level should be Deferring to her equally strong sisters ... some of this doesn't really "jive" with the books, but it seems fairly clear that most women don't seem to expect an equally strong AS to defer based on years in Training or Age either, comes down to force of personality IMO.

Having an official role and how long they've been in it is clearly a bigger indicator between these women, even when it's not "official" that someone has been placed above others.

Level 13 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Elaida (goes down to being older than Moiraine and Siuan)
Moiraine (she's a year older than Siuan)
Siuan
Romanda (3 less years in training than Lelaine, but 2 more than Elaida, Moiraine and Siuan)
Lelaine

Level 14 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Bera (she's a year older than Kiruna was, but they had shortest training after Elaida/Moiraine/Siuan)
Kiruna
Martine Jenata (older than Leane, same amount of training time)
Leane
Sheriam
Liandrin
Pevara
Aisha
Valera
Sashalle
Yukiri
Galina
Merise
Saerin

Level 15 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Nesune
Carlinya
Talene
Myrelle
Morvrin (same amount of training as Desandre, but 1 less year as Accepted)
Desandre
Lemai
Anaiya (older than Katerine, but same years in Training)
Katerine
Theodrin
Silviana
Shemerin

Level 16 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Kwamesa
Beonin (older than either Aisling or Faeldrin)
Faeldrin (older than Aisling)
Aisling
Rafela
Masuri
Haesel (same total time in training as Doesine, but 4 years less as Accepted)
Doesine
Ester
Beldeine
Bernaille
Nisao (fewer years as Accepted than Adelorna)
Adelorna
Eldrith
Brendas

Level 17 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Seaine
Alviarin
Verin (older than Merana)
Merana
Teslyn (older than Joline and Erian)
Joline (older than Erian)
Erian (1 less year as Accepted than Alanna)
Alanna
Faolain
Annharid
Ispan
Meidani
Danelle
Falion
Cathal
Temaile
Janya
Seonid

Level 18 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Delana (1 less year as Accepted than Shevan)
Shevan
Saren
Corele (1 less year as Accepted than Jeaine)
Jeaine
Chesmal
Marith (1 less year as Accepted than Asne)
Asne
Kairen
Demira (1 less year as Accepted than Sierin)
Sierin
Jennet
Narenwin
Mikio

Level 19 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Celestin
Dagdara (1 less year as Accepted than Tiana)
Tiana
Gabrelle (1 less year as Accepted than Gitara)
Gitara
Berenicia
Tarna (2 less years as Accepted than Zerah)
Zerah
Sedore
Elaiva
Rubinde
Toveine

Level 20 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Samitsu
Evanellein
Faiselle

Level 21 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Valene
Tsutama
Covarla
Ferane
Rianna
Juilaine
Mayam
Jesse
Sereille

Level 22 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Vandene
Samalin
Ronelle
Sibella
Rina
Suana
Cairlyn
Ashmanaille
Merilille

Level 23 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Adeleas
Sarafelle
Takima
Escaralde
Duhara

Level 24 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Lyrelle
Lirene
Aledrin
Kumira
Andaya
Edesina
Saroiya

Level 25 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Javindhra
Moria
Velina
Zemaille
Elza
Malind

Level 26 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Varilin
Mirlene
Sareitha

Level 27 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Amico
Berylla
Salita
Aeldene
Amira (older than Janine)
Janine
Careane
Niande

Level 28 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Razina
Nelavaire
Berana
Joiya

Level 29 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Magla
Ryma

Level 34 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Shimoku
Therva
Cabriana
Akarrin
Adine
Vayelle

Level 35 (most senior to least senior based on training and, as necessary, age)

Siuan Sanche (Post-Stilling)
Shana
Carinadre

Outside of these levels there is only 1 or 2 women with Training times/ages available who aren't Kin to figure out deference

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 01/12/2015 at 09:36:12 PM
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3536 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1283 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1256 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1425 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1293 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1433 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1446 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1610 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1286 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1401 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1428 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1421 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1435 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1441 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1604 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1578 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1539 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1352 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1598 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1479 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1279 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1577 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1406 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1525 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1584 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1345 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1460 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1323 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1289 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1301 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1291 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1348 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1374 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1288 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1633 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1319 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1262 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1266 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 795 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1282 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1339 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1248 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1300 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1294 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 870 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1278 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1289 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1475 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1356 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1375 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1398 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1414 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1333 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1385 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1422 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1233 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1284 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1448 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1282 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1394 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1443 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1236 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1351 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1207 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1225 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1285 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1281 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1434 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1434 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1442 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1814 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1290 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1616 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1216 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1253 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1241 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1186 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1514 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1202 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1312 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1796 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1215 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1439 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1253 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1156 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1202 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1284 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1223 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1235 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 812 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1317 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1140 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1297 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 735 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 761 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1291 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1280 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1204 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1216 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1165 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1149 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1191 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1269 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1194 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1187 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1252 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1183 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1297 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1365 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1278 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1284 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1186 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1278 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1175 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1281 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1235 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1188 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1209 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1167 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1220 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1146 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1285 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 771 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1232 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1166 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1288 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1240 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1222 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1199 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1146 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1204 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1218 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1208 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1187 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1320 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1271 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1370 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1224 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1208 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1249 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1366 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1391 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1240 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1523 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1424 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1425 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1197 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1366 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1255 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1176 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1295 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1273 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1163 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1367 Views

Reply to Message