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Aran'gar fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM

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I'd guess from these circles that Flinn is considerably stronger than Eben was since they faced a stronger and seemingly more skilled opponent and came off better than Eben's circle.

Well, the circle facing Aran'gar was surprised, and had Eben already injured before the fight even began. And Daigian was leading the circle while obviously distracted by the fact that her Warder was slowly dying. So I don't know if we can say anything conclusive here.

There's also the skill issue. Flinn way well be more skilled than Daigian., for all we know.


I would say it's safe to place Flinn, as a minimum, in the upper Aes Sedai strength ranges (maybe as high as 15-13). Eben was strong enough to Travel (TPoD), which according to the guide makes his minimum strength 19,

I see that Dom's statements also failed to have an effect on your continued insistence that a level 19 male is the same as a level 19 woman?
but it's doubtful he was much stronger than that since his circle had 4 and included the 2 strongest Aes Sedai aside from those occupied with "air cover" and if he was much stronger than 19 either Nesune or Beldeine would have been relegated to Verin's circle to balance out strength since Cadsuane was almost certainly unaware of Verin's angreal.

Forget that, even with their current strengths it makes little sense at all that Cadsuane didn't swap either Beldiene or Nesune for Sarene. That would have made both these circles better balanced. Unless, of course, the differences from level 15-18 are small enough that no one cared.
Also we know for certain that a level 14 woman + level 25 woman are still at least somewhat weaker than a ++1 man ... Elza tells us that Cadsuane was holding more saidar than she and Merise combined, but that amount had to have included an angreal (i.e. she knew this was more than Cadsuane's natural strength). The Companion tells us Cadsuane's shrike angreal was not very powerful, but stepped her up to the top male level of strength, thus considerably above any unaided woman.

This little tidbit pretty much guarantees that every circle listed above was more than a strength match to their Forsaken opponents, likely considerably more.


Yup, and it is the most quantitative statement we have on the Power. It puts the lie to the idea that Egwene was stronger than Amys and Melaine combined (which Aviendha made) or that Egwene+Lelaine+Romanda couldn't have matched Aran'gar (which Egwene made). Even Moiraine's statement that Egwene+Aviendha would just match a female Forsaken is suspect, but plausible if Aviendha was weaker than her eventual level 11.

These characters were all speaking from ignorance, inflating the strengths of Egwene, or the Forsaken.

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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers darius_sedai - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3311 Views
Outstanding job Sidious - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1054 Views
Re: Outstanding job darius_sedai - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1049 Views
Very impressive. Well done. Cannoli - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1186 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. darius_sedai - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1080 Views
Quick Question gban007 - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1168 Views
Nope fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1180 Views
They do say it Sidious - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1376 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1048 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength Sidious - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1176 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1210 Views
Well maybe Sidious - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1156 Views
Here's how I see it: fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1227 Views
I agree darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1195 Views
Re: I agree DomA - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1334 Views
It's always been confusing darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1299 Views
Re: It's always been confusing DomA - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1289 Views
I wholeheartedly agree darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1104 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: DomA - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1326 Views
Morgase Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1183 Views
I agree with you on this darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1031 Views
Re: Morgase DomA - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1301 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1157 Views
Re: I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment DomA - 04/12/2015 08:41:51 PM 1088 Views
I don't know about RJ's issues, but the White Tower's waste always seemed like a minor theme there Cannoli - 04/12/2015 09:05:08 PM 1127 Views
Yes the Aes Sedai are all about "the glory of being Aes Sedai" kind of like religious cults darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:47:34 PM 1062 Views
Too bad he also wrote in contingencies darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:45:26 PM 1020 Views
Re: Well maybe darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1261 Views
Re: Well maybe Sidious - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1336 Views
Probably darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1110 Views
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Indeed darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1100 Views
Re: Indeed Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1031 Views
close enough to not debate about it darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1067 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it fionwe1987 - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1067 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1103 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying fionwe1987 - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1149 Views
um, no darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1057 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. Cannoli - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1296 Views
That's on you... fionwe1987 - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1091 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1031 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1060 Views
LOL *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 641 Views
Some points Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1056 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1123 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength gban007 - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1040 Views
Great job fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1048 Views
Re: Great job darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1069 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 696 Views
Some questions fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1068 Views
Re: Some questions darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1039 Views
Re: Some questions Sidious - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1228 Views
That's why I added another column to it darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1103 Views
Some more fionwe1987 - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1135 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1159 Views
Re: Some more fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1155 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1103 Views
Re: Some more fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1120 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1174 Views
Re: Some more Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1012 Views
You said this much better than I did darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1047 Views
I think the men are much too strong Sidious - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1230 Views
Yes fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1074 Views
Re: Yes Sidious - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1160 Views
Re: Yes darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1209 Views
Re: Yes Sidious - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1018 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1083 Views
Shielding Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1012 Views
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Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually Sidious - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1047 Views
seriously! darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1056 Views
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Interesting... fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1185 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1220 Views
Good job Terez - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1425 Views
Some questions fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1090 Views
Can't offer much Terez - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1259 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 959 Views
Re: Some questions darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1034 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 969 Views
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Re: Some questions DomA - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1257 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 949 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1092 Views
Sort of. Terez - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1419 Views
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Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1179 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1048 Views
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Moiraine... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1013 Views
That too is possible darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1003 Views
Some random trends/data points darius_sedai - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1009 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 667 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1076 Views
Not sure she can channel, though fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 892 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1081 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 577 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 608 Views
so.... Sidious - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1073 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1024 Views
Yes Sidious - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 981 Views
Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 996 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 967 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 909 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 966 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1013 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 928 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 962 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1046 Views
This is a flawed list Sidious - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 955 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1069 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1158 Views
Not really Sidious - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1014 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1037 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement Sidious - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 972 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about darius_sedai - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1070 Views
Some quotes fionwe1987 - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 940 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1029 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1011 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! darius_sedai - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 975 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! Sidious - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 997 Views
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Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road Sidious - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 992 Views
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Re: Ajah Strength Index Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 982 Views
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Re: Aran'gar Sidious - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1070 Views
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Re: Aran'gar Sidious - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1179 Views
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If you want to use the file you might want to grab it now before the site shuts down *NM* darius_sedai - 18/09/2016 06:45:48 PM 529 Views
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