Now yes, Rand does use balefire and we know its dangerous. Infact, perhaps that is the real reason for the horror that Min and Nynaeve feel. But really does that make sense either? How many people were in that palace? A hundred? Two? Lets go for broke and say Graendal had three hundred people in his palace. Now we know that Rand knows the damage balefire causes, he does not yet want to destroy the pattern at this point so we can assume that he regulated the amount of power used to only burn the people back as little as possible. Let's say 15 minutes.
Now you could argue that 15 minutes is too little since Rand used the Choedan Kal itself to do the job. However I would argue that the reason he had to use the CK was to erase the entire palace at once and not to burn the people back days or weeks. Remember that at this point Rand still wants to save the pattern so he would not do this.
Now you could argue that 15 minutes is too little since Rand used the Choedan Kal itself to do the job. However I would argue that the reason he had to use the CK was to erase the entire palace at once and not to burn the people back days or weeks. Remember that at this point Rand still wants to save the pattern so he would not do this.
I am unaware that it is possible to consciously adjust the potency of balefire. Not saying it's impossible, just asking for your source in this assertion. Thus far, everything we've seen leads us to believe that the amount of balefire used is proportional to its potency - and there was more balefire used in this one scene than in the entire rest of the series, combined.
If all it took to damage the pattern in a way that was in any way significant was to balefire 300 people back 15 minutes, then why has Moridin not done that? I mean he could just travel to some obscure village or town and start blasting away. Given how strong we know Moridin is, he could easily balefire 300 people. Heck, there are a lot of villages so if Moridin wanted he could probably balefire more than 300 people easily. In a few weeks he could probably balefire 3000. Or more! And each one more than 15 minutes. And these would be people who would actually be alive and sentient. With more active threads than the drones in Graendals palace.
This assumption is based on what you believe Moridin's plans are, but as we do not know exactly what those are, it's pretty much unfounded from the get-go. I mean, ask yourself, which of these possibilities is a more reasonable explanation for Moridin not balefiring entire populations?
1- Contrary to all evidence provided in the series and by Word of God (by Robert Jordan himself), balefire is actually harmless to the Pattern. After all, it can't be a question of quantity - Moridin wouldn't limit himself to a few hundred victims. If the unraveling of the Pattern through the use of balefire was Moridin's desire and dependent on a quantity of victims, Moridin would find that quantity of people and balefire them. therefore, contrary to Robert Jordan's opinion, balefire is completely and absolutely harmless to the Pattern.
2- Moridin's plans cannot come about through the destruction of the Pattern through balefire.
It seems to me than that when we take the fact that Moridin does not do this together with other facts such as Rands comment that he has seen many thousands burned from the pattern together with the fact that apparently during the War of power, balefire was used on entire cities, it seems to me that erasing 300 drones who probably had very little influence on anything, and one forsaken, would do very little real damage to the pattern. To have a significant effect would probably require tens of thousands of people balefired or Moridin would constantly be out there secretly balefiring people as fast as he could.
Finally, you assume that the destruction of the Pattern through balefire would happen through number of victims in an incident of balefire use. But we have no reason to believe this is how it happens. Really, the only was to know how would be for it to happen, and then there would be nobody to know.
There are innumerable possibilities other than that. Just as a way of examples, it could be a strict number of victims, but an absolute number, and every victim of balefire counts toward that number, therefore even a single victim of balefire brings the world distinctly closer to oblivion.
Or it could be a percentage - Say, one victim gives it a 0,01% chance of the Pattern unraveling, and a city would be a 20% chance. That still means that the Pattern could unravel from the balefire of just one person - say, Rahvin in The Fires of Heaven just as much as it could from an entire city.
And there are other possibilities too.
So I can't agree with you, simply because I don't accept your assumptions as true.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Rand the psycho?
- 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
1702 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
1109 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
928 Views
Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
1044 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
953 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
941 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
883 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
1002 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
905 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
979 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
909 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
964 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
900 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
960 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
- 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
1385 Views
Rand crossed a line
- 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
1000 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
- 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
979 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
- 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
908 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
493 Views
LOL ... super-death!
- 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
845 Views
Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
979 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
902 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
929 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
930 Views
let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
920 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
915 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
961 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
868 Views
yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
864 Views
Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
830 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
- 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
982 Views
Sigh. What mass murder?
- 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
817 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
883 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
909 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
939 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
877 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
- 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
978 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
925 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
- 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
925 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
- 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
1001 Views
Meh
- 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
839 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
841 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
929 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
895 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
- 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
907 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
831 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
857 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
921 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
854 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
998 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions 
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
957 Views
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
957 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument.
- 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
900 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
- 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
930 Views
I concede
- 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
836 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
- 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
964 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
843 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
- 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
917 Views
You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
- 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
981 Views
Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
- 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
840 Views
Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
- 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
1144 Views
Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
- 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
886 Views