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Your assertions weaken your overall argument. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.

That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.

In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1897 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1335 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1297 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1333 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1237 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1149 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1226 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1131 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1125 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 1096 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1090 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 1054 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 1090 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 1072 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1181 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 1105 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1193 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1139 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1170 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 1098 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1165 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 1074 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1192 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1189 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1147 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1222 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 1037 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1222 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 578 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 1094 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1097 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 1056 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 585 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 1036 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 578 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 1078 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 1019 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1179 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1148 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1126 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1117 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1132 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1110 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1234 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 1067 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1206 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 1051 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1111 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 1086 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1101 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1116 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 1048 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1130 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 1094 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 1010 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1162 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1137 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1151 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 1062 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1099 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 997 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 1024 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1201 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 1047 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 1030 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1121 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 1096 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 1084 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1162 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 1021 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 1060 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1142 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 1045 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1212 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1158 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 1093 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1133 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 1048 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1165 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1117 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1110 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 1048 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1118 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1302 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1421 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 998 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 1041 Views

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