Active Users:288 Time:30/10/2026 08:47:59 PM
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.

That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.

In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1938 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1403 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1345 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1384 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1281 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1193 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1281 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1182 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1168 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 1138 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1140 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 1109 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 1133 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 1126 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1230 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 1155 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1243 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1195 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1211 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 1140 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1214 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 1114 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1234 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1240 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1187 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1263 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 1080 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1266 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 604 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 1143 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1140 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 1109 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 608 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 1083 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 605 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 1125 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 1060 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1226 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1195 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1176 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1170 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1184 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1153 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1283 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 1109 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1259 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 1105 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1161 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 1127 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1141 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1159 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 1096 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1175 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 1136 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 1057 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1206 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1190 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1200 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 1097 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1155 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 1043 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 1066 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1248 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 1098 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 1075 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1178 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 1146 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 1135 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1203 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 1059 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 1105 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1196 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 1089 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1253 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1204 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 1131 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1192 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 1090 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1209 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1163 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1155 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 1109 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1158 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1346 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1469 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 1045 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 1091 Views

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