Your assertions weaken your overall argument.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.
That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.
In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.
In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Rand the psycho?
- 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
1938 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
1403 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
1193 Views
Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
1182 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
1168 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM
1140 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
1230 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
1155 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
1243 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
1195 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
1211 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
1140 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
1214 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
- 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
1655 Views
Rand crossed a line
- 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
1240 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
- 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
1266 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
604 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
- 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
1143 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
608 Views
LOL ... super-death!
- 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
1083 Views
Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
1195 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
1170 Views
let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
1184 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
1153 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
1283 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
1109 Views
yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
1100 Views
Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
1067 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
- 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
1259 Views
Sigh. What mass murder?
- 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
1105 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
1127 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
1141 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
1159 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
1096 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
1175 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
1136 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
1057 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
- 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
1206 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
1190 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
- 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
1200 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
- 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
1248 Views
Meh
- 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
1098 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
1075 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
1178 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
1146 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
- 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
1135 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
1059 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
1105 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
1196 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
1089 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
1253 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1204 Views
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1204 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument.
- 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
1131 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
- 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
1192 Views
I concede
- 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
1090 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
- 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
1209 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
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Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
1109 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
- 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
1158 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument.
- 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
1045 Views
You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
- 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
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Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
- 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
1081 Views
Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
- 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
1378 Views
Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
- 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
1128 Views
