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I concede Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
Well. I was reading the book trying to come up with another argument for Fanatic-Templar, and I just realised something. I think I totally messed everything up here.

My original idea was based on two fronts.

1. Rand was right that the people that Graendal had compulsed were so braindead that for all intents and purposes they were not alive at all and the only one truly alive there was Graendal. The rest were zombies. I think that this still has merit.

2. LTT/Rand was still sane enough at the point the balefiring happened that he would have been carefull to use a minimum amount of force. If there was a chance to destroy the pattern, he would not have done it. And also that having LTT memories would mean that he would know exactly how much damage the pattern could take, better than anyone. So essentially no balefire atrocity.

However, upon re-reading the book, I just realised that the balefire incident happened a lot later in the books than I thought it did. I thought it happened relatively early, before Rand started agreeing with LTT that death was preferable. It did not. It happened very near the end.

This causes the floor to drop entirely from my argument. There is no reason to assume that the totally suicidal Rand that he already is at this point would be especially carefull with Balefire. He is more Moridin than TwoRivers!Rand already.

So I admit, I was probably wrong about the whole balefire thing and that those who argued with me about that are right and that it was indeed a crazy atrocity.

Damnit.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1835 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1244 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1230 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1260 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1162 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1073 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1149 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1063 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1053 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 1025 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1026 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 978 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 1023 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 1004 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1120 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 1022 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1122 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1041 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1098 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 1030 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1097 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 995 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1122 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1124 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1083 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1159 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 966 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1114 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 542 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 1023 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1035 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 996 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 546 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 962 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 541 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 997 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 953 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1103 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1068 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1056 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1055 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1059 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1038 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1121 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 991 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1095 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 939 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1040 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 1016 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1041 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1046 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 967 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1057 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 1023 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 940 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1094 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1064 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1069 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 998 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1028 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 936 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 957 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1133 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 958 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 964 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1064 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 1024 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 1022 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1096 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 942 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 990 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1060 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 977 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1132 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1094 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 1030 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1054 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 965 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1091 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1032 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1038 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 975 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1044 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1232 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1356 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 937 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 971 Views

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