Well. I was reading the book trying to come up with another argument for Fanatic-Templar, and I just realised something. I think I totally messed everything up here.
My original idea was based on two fronts.
1. Rand was right that the people that Graendal had compulsed were so braindead that for all intents and purposes they were not alive at all and the only one truly alive there was Graendal. The rest were zombies. I think that this still has merit.
2. LTT/Rand was still sane enough at the point the balefiring happened that he would have been carefull to use a minimum amount of force. If there was a chance to destroy the pattern, he would not have done it. And also that having LTT memories would mean that he would know exactly how much damage the pattern could take, better than anyone. So essentially no balefire atrocity.
However, upon re-reading the book, I just realised that the balefire incident happened a lot later in the books than I thought it did. I thought it happened relatively early, before Rand started agreeing with LTT that death was preferable. It did not. It happened very near the end.
This causes the floor to drop entirely from my argument. There is no reason to assume that the totally suicidal Rand that he already is at this point would be especially carefull with Balefire. He is more Moridin than TwoRivers!Rand already.
So I admit, I was probably wrong about the whole balefire thing and that those who argued with me about that are right and that it was indeed a crazy atrocity.
Damnit.
	My original idea was based on two fronts.
1. Rand was right that the people that Graendal had compulsed were so braindead that for all intents and purposes they were not alive at all and the only one truly alive there was Graendal. The rest were zombies. I think that this still has merit.
2. LTT/Rand was still sane enough at the point the balefiring happened that he would have been carefull to use a minimum amount of force. If there was a chance to destroy the pattern, he would not have done it. And also that having LTT memories would mean that he would know exactly how much damage the pattern could take, better than anyone. So essentially no balefire atrocity.
However, upon re-reading the book, I just realised that the balefire incident happened a lot later in the books than I thought it did. I thought it happened relatively early, before Rand started agreeing with LTT that death was preferable. It did not. It happened very near the end.
This causes the floor to drop entirely from my argument. There is no reason to assume that the totally suicidal Rand that he already is at this point would be especially carefull with Balefire. He is more Moridin than TwoRivers!Rand already.
So I admit, I was probably wrong about the whole balefire thing and that those who argued with me about that are right and that it was indeed a crazy atrocity.
Damnit.
			Rand the psycho?
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
	        1702 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
			I cannot follow your assumptions.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
	        1108 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
	        928 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
	        1044 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
	        953 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
	        941 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
	        883 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
	        1002 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
	        905 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
	        978 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
	        908 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
	        964 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
	        900 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
	        960 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
	    
	         - 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
	        1385 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			Rand crossed a line
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
	        1000 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
		
	    
			Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
	        979 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
	        477 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			But not in this turning of the Wheel.  So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
	        908 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
	        492 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			LOL ... super-death!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
	        844 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
	        979 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
		
			Re: Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
	        902 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
	        929 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
	        929 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			let me ask the question in a different way
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
	        919 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: let me ask the question in a different way
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
	        914 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			actually that quote supports my thoughts
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
	        961 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
	        868 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
	        864 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
	        829 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
	        982 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Sigh. What mass murder?
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
	        817 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
	        883 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
	        909 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
	        919 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
	        858 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
	        939 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
	        876 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
	        810 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
	        977 Views
	        
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
	        925 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
	        924 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
	        1001 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Meh
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
	        838 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
	        841 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
	        928 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
	        894 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
	        906 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
	        831 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
	        857 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
	        921 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
	        854 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
	        998 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions  - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
	        957 Views
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
	        957 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	     - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
	        957 Views
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
	        957 Views
	        
	
		
	    
			Nice way to avoid the argument.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
	        900 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			I'm just done talking in circles.  You seem to think that because people
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
	        929 Views
	        
	    
	
	    		
			I concede
		
	         - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
	        836 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
	        964 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Morals are subjective anyhow,
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
	        920 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
	        842 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
	    
	         - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
	        917 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
	        981 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
	    
	         - 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
	        840 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive,  Operation Chaos Rules
	    
	         - 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
	        1143 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
	        886 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
 
  
  
  
  
  
 