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Your assertions weaken your overall argument. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.

That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.

In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1615 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1017 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1013 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1043 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 944 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 853 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 970 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 889 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 856 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 805 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 808 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 767 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 793 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 774 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 928 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 836 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 900 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 786 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 879 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 812 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 850 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 797 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 907 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 923 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 837 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 948 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 762 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 867 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 425 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 827 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 844 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 797 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 458 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 774 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 427 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 783 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 757 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 894 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 812 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 851 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 845 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 832 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 829 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 846 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 805 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 862 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 749 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 838 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 819 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 827 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 840 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 784 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 853 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 784 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 728 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 907 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 841 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 822 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 774 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 830 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 740 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 761 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 917 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 759 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 768 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 843 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 790 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 821 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 899 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 767 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 773 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 835 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 777 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 920 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 876 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 827 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 861 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 755 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 865 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 815 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 846 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 771 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 851 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1008 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1135 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 739 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 781 Views

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