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Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
There's quite a few moments of argument between Rand and Nynaeve before she tests to see if Ramshalan is still under compulsion.

If Aran'gar was with Graendal, and Graendal therefore knew there was a man channeling a hige amount of Saidin outside, she could well have Traveled to the forest surrounding Rand. When she saw the Balefire destroy her lair, she could have removed the weave.

We have no clue if any resides remained, because Nynaeve doesn't have the ability to read residues (we know this from tPoD).


Why do you want Graendal to be alive so badly? If you read the "damned scene", it's clear, crystal clear, that Graendal is dead. I don't mean to be rude, here, but it just seems like... well, it seems some kind of desperate attempt to get a second chance for a character you wanted to be more impressive. Not only is the evidence in the book clear, but outside the book, there's really no narrative time for a reveal of the character to be alive, then be fought and killed again.

I just would like to see someone who believes she's alive give some evidence as to why they think so. I do mean evidence that isn't trying to find holes in the plot to explain how she could possibly, maybe, if numerous unmentioned-in-the-book pre-requisites are met, she could concievably be alive. Is there any evidence that anyone has that she's actually alive?

I apologize, because this sounds harsh, I know, it's just bewildering to me.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2772 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1507 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1303 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1418 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1414 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1226 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1370 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1335 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1584 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1360 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1300 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1120 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1122 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1050 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1354 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1223 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1255 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1160 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1241 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1084 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1245 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1266 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1200 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1312 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1069 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1269 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1050 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1252 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1239 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1114 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1231 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1241 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1220 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1336 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1170 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1214 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1051 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1347 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1095 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1280 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1161 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1134 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1161 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1062 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1175 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1242 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1162 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1123 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 616 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1195 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1094 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1241 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 917 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1027 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1109 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1248 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1282 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1037 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1176 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1091 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1267 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1304 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1151 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1085 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1022 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1210 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1198 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1073 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1129 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 948 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1017 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1095 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1119 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1081 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 762 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 703 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1202 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 942 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1124 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1037 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1079 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1178 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1013 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1088 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1256 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1262 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1080 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1100 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1099 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 907 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1116 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1225 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1060 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1037 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1034 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1143 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1237 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 728 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1212 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 974 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1081 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1035 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1085 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1069 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 851 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1137 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1188 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1109 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1223 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1109 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1120 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 972 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1156 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1106 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1138 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1184 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1155 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1529 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1073 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1090 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1135 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1113 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1196 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1146 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1136 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 721 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1119 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 702 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1095 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1230 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1003 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1101 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1182 Views

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