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Re: Indeed... Sidious Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM
By chance Nynaeve decided to further investigate the case concerning the dead messenger & Lady Chadmar on her own (contrary to Nynaeve, "Rand had determined that his hunt for the Domani king had hit a wall with the death of the messenger" ). Later, just before Nynaeve leaves the dungeon, she spontaneously decides to Delve Lady Chadmar to see, if she is ill and identifies the poison. This leads to Kerb, and Nynaeve manages to unravel the Compulsion on him (which is quite difficult). By chance or ta'veren, Kerb didn't lose his whole mind in the porcess, but does manage to utter at least the location of Graendal's palace, when he is asked by Rand.

While there certainly was some luck on Rand's side, this scene isn't that illogical. On the other hand, it's pretty crazy to think that Graendal could foresee all this, especially relying on chance, to lure Rand to her. If Graendal made a mistake, one could - in hindsight - say, it was apparently ordering the death of Lady Chadmar by this slow-working natural poison, which could be detected by a capable Wisdom AS in time (though as said, the Forsaken often make such mistakes, and it could have worked).


It seems that some people think that Graendal is second only to the Creator in prowess. It was a complete coincidence that Nynaeve stumbled upon one of Graendal's victims. Not only that but Graendal would have had to assume that Rand could get her location from Kerb, which he was clearly forbidden to do. Rand had to get a female channeler to unravel Graendal's webs and then get a small piece of information before the boy died. If Graendal could plan this then she IS the Creator.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 3121 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1854 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1668 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1768 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1725 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1569 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1728 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1646 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1871 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1705 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1643 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1421 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1476 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1380 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1721 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1549 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1591 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1502 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1551 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1454 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1573 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1607 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1489 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1610 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1365 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1560 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1395 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1550 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1582 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1445 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1560 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1585 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1551 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1649 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1484 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1537 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1398 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1649 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1415 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1591 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1476 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1462 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1494 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1374 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1507 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1568 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1471 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1449 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 771 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1524 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1421 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1582 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 1207 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1358 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1394 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1536 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1623 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1349 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1528 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1430 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1615 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1636 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1470 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1431 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1328 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1533 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1513 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1355 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1445 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1288 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1347 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1430 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1472 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1389 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 923 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 886 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1531 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1293 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1465 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1358 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1456 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1543 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1320 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1395 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1634 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1625 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1447 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1434 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1404 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 1189 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1495 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1567 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1409 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1361 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1366 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1481 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1572 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 889 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1515 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1280 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1414 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1376 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1430 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1408 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 1183 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1491 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1467 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1424 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1557 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1414 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1458 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1315 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1472 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1445 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1472 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1539 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1503 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1832 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1411 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1428 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1475 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1431 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1524 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1472 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1466 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 883 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1443 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 854 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1424 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1576 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1332 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1467 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1524 Views

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