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Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
formation of the Westlands by influencing Artur Hawkwing.

There is no way he could have known which seeds sprouted, but he went forward planning with his time limit and despite his lack of omniscience, many of his plans bore valuable fruit.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2771 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1507 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1302 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1417 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1413 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1226 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1369 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1334 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 2799 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1583 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1360 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1299 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1119 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1120 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1049 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1353 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1222 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1254 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1160 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1241 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1083 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1245 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1266 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1199 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1311 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1068 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1268 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1049 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 858 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1252 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1238 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1113 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1230 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1240 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1220 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1334 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1169 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1213 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1051 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 645 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1347 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1094 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1279 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1161 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1133 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1160 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1061 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1174 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1241 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1161 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1122 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 615 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1194 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1094 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1240 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 916 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1026 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1109 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1247 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1281 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1036 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1175 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1090 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1266 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1303 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1151 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1085 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1021 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1209 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1197 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1072 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1128 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 948 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1016 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1094 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1119 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1080 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 762 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 702 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1201 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 941 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1122 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1036 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1078 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1177 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1013 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1086 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1255 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1261 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1079 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1100 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1098 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 906 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1115 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1224 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1060 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1037 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 659 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 789 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1034 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1143 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1236 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1242 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 727 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1212 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 974 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1081 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1034 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1084 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1069 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 851 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1136 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1187 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1109 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1222 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1109 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1119 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 971 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1155 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1105 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1137 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1184 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1154 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1528 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 592 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1073 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1089 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1135 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1113 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1196 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1145 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 1117 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1135 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 720 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1118 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 702 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1095 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1230 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1003 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1100 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1182 Views
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