Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
Where is precognition involved in Graendal wanting Rand to be lured to her base if that was her plan? Where is precognition necessary if she had prepared defensive weaves around her palace to detect the presence of male or female channelers and/or enemy forces?
What you call precognition is nothing more than plotting and seeing how those plots develop.
What you call precognition is nothing more than plotting and seeing how those plots develop.
She couldn't have done it because it requires a number of highly unlikely incidents that were likely influenced by Rand's ta'veren presence. Only a channeler would have been able to Delve Milisair. Only someone with knowledge of herbs could have identified the poison. This person would have to find and Delve Milisair within the one week time window between the beginning of the poisoning and her death - and the poisononing had to be begun before the investigation, so that time window had to be very well predicted. Which, as we know, means that Graendal had to predict the conversation between Rand and Nynaeve, and Nynaeve's reaction to it. Then she had to predict that someone would be able to unravel her Compulsion, something that is generally considered impossible. And that's to say nothing of the Compulsion on Ramshalan. Then she had to predict that Rand would balefire or otherwise wipe out Graendal's entire palace from a distance, something that is completely different from his modus operandi in dealing with Forsaken thus far: he confronted Aginor, Be'lal, Ishamael, Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael and Semirhage in person, after all.
So, in reiteration, she had to predict that a channeler with the Delving Talent and knowledge in poisons would Delve Milisair in a one week time window after she had begun being poisoned but before she died, that the Compulsion on Kerb could and would be unraveled, that Kerb would still be sufficiently cognisant to identify the location of her lair to Rand, and that Rand would then destroy her entire abode from afar, contrary to all previous experience.
That is what requires precognition.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
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I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
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The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
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After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
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I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
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I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
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well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
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Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
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that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
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None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
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my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
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Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
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Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
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I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
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- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
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Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
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- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
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I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
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Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
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Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
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The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
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Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
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Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
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But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
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I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
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Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
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Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
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no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
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Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
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read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
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LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
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the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
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Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
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I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
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But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
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Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
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That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
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But, having a clean up guy does make sense.
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
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- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
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But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
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Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
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Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
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Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
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Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
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I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
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Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
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Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
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Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
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Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
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Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
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Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
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By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
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I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
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That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
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I agree about the 'awesome' part
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
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It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
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I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
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But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
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So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
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Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
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Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
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Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
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Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
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Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
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Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
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And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
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Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
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Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
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Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
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Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
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That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
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Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
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Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
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Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
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I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
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I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display.
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
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*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
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You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
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I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
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Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
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Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
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I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
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Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
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Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
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*NM*