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Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 05/02/2010 11:53:18 PM
Even then, just because Morgase and Elayne were dead, would not mean that Rand was necessarily the one that killed them. If Gawyn was smart as someone educated and trained like he is should be, he would realise that in the current world, Rand being the Dragon Reborn is naturally going to be falsely blamed for lots of things simply because he is the Dragon Reborn.

Sure, Rand's appearance in Caemlyn is suspicious, but irrelevant given traveling. Even without knowing about Rahvin, it would be rational for Rand to have heard about Morgase's death just as he did, and travelled to Caemlyn to secure it for Elayne as far as Gawyn knows. He knows Elayne cares for Rand and has no reason to assume Rand might not return the friendship.


Gawyn learns of Morgase's death after Rand has invaded Caemlyn, so there really is no reason to assume that Rand came there afterward. Especially if you notice that national leaders have a tendancy of dying after Rand invades, not before. With the invasion of Tear, the current leader, High Lord Samon, disappears. There was no leader at the time Rand took Cairhien, but once Colavaere takes the Crown, Rand comes in and she ends up hanged. Rand goes to Andor, and Morgase and Gaebril disappear. He goes to Illian and Brend vanishes. There is more than enough reason to figure that Rand disposed of Morgase, and none to think otherwise. What more can you expect of someone than to accept what the evidence indicates?


Later, in Like Lightning and Rain, he promises to allow Egwene to prove Rand innocent and to forestall judgment until then. Never mind that Egwene is an idiot and could have told him she was there when Rand learned of Morgase's death and decided to invade Andor to avenge her (News Comes to Cairhien).


No argument here. Egwene is an idiot for this.


But you know who does believe Morgase is dead based on a rumour? Everyone else. Rand invades Andor on the basis that he heard from Mat who heard from one of his men who heard from the enemy who have heard rumours that Morgase hasn't been seen in weeks. (News Comes to Cairhien).


Rand knows that Rahvin is hanging around in Caemlyn however. It is natural for him to assume that the rumor about Morgase would be true simply because he knows that Rahvin was in a position to kill her. Nynaeve actually sees Rahvin and can confirm that to Elayne and others. The knowledge of Rahvin in Caemlyn is what makes the rumor about Morgases death credible to Rand&co. If Lanfear had not told Rand about Rahvin, I expect Rand would have wanted to have the news confirmed first before he took action.


So the rumour is credible because Rahvin is there, but the rumour becomes incredible when Rand is there? Why? Rand has a greater track record of eliminating monarchs in the countries he takes than Rahvin does.

Regardless of all of this, Gawyn is still an idiot. Why? Because given his training and education, he should be fully aware of the prophecies and that the Dragon Reborn is required for the defeat of the DO.

Even if Rand HAD killed Morgase, Gawyn would still be an idiot for wanting Rand dead. Even if Rand had tortured Morgase first, then killed Elayne and finished by turning Caemlyn to rubble, Gawyn would STILL be an idiot for wanting Rand dead(before the LB anyway). Whatever he thinks Rand might have done, any remotely sane person who knows the prophecies should realise that there are bigger issues here.

If he really wants Rand dead so badly, he should wait until after the last battle and kill Rand then if he survives. What Gawyn wants to do is kill Rand before the LB, which would result in the victory of the DO and the complete annihilation of everything.

Gawyn places rumors above the safety of the entire universe. What else could you call someone like that other than an idiot?


Give me a quote that says Gawyn wants to kill Rand before Tarmon Gai'don?

Besides, he could simply kill Rand at Tarmon Gai'don. The Dragon Reborn needs to die on the slopes of Shayol Ghul to free mankind from the Shadow, doesn't he? How appropriate that it would be his death that would be justice.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Who would win in a fight? (yes, you read that right! ) Yondaime - 04/02/2010 10:38:01 PM 2765 Views
Gawyn. *chokes back the vomit that rushes up his throat* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2010 10:53:37 PM 1527 Views
There there Yondaime - 04/02/2010 11:15:00 PM 1442 Views
Huh? He was even WORSE in TGS. Lord Haart - 05/02/2010 05:14:16 AM 1307 Views
I dunno. He actaully DID stuff this time Yondaime - 05/02/2010 05:24:48 AM 1376 Views
I agree he was much better than before darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 04:39:33 PM 1258 Views
It pains me to say it, but Gawyn would win. Jeordam - 04/02/2010 11:15:19 PM 1453 Views
Re: It pains me to say it, but Gawyn would win. Gerbeaud - 05/02/2010 01:13:52 AM 1366 Views
Gawyn is incredibly irritating Yondaime - 05/02/2010 01:55:40 AM 1381 Views
No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 10:21:45 PM 1302 Views
Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Datakim - 05/02/2010 10:44:47 PM 1295 Views
Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 11:53:18 PM 1395 Views
Perhaps the key is that Gawyn is an even more simplistic thinker than Galad. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 06:20:06 AM 1261 Views
Again, what? When? Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 08:08:47 AM 1269 Views
Well, the fact that he's had access to one of the best educations in Randland Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 09:22:28 AM 1233 Views
Completely different subjects, and pretty insignificant, really. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 06:44:35 PM 896 Views
the person to beat Gawyn is Mat imlad - 06/02/2010 06:36:03 AM 1520 Views
Perrin would beat Lan?! *NM* BlackAdder - 06/02/2010 05:52:47 PM 1211 Views
Sure, Gawyn is better BlackAdder - 05/02/2010 02:26:45 AM 1298 Views
Re: Who would win in a fight? (yes, you read that right! ) MissKoalaVB - 05/02/2010 04:27:16 AM 1431 Views
Yondaime - 05/02/2010 04:47:17 AM 1156 Views
Add Nynaeve and Egwene to the fight, that's something worth seeing then. Lord Haart - 05/02/2010 05:20:53 AM 1422 Views
Egwene would hand Nynaeve her ass darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 04:55:51 PM 1382 Views
I agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/02/2010 05:10:34 PM 1315 Views
Re: I agree. darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 05:25:52 PM 1556 Views
You're forgeting Nynaeve's fight vs Trollocs in KoD. Lord Haart - 05/02/2010 07:41:28 PM 1421 Views
Re: You're forgeting Nynaeve's fight vs Trollocs in KoD. darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 09:42:32 PM 1366 Views
I just mentioned it since you said Egwene had more combat experience. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 06:21:38 AM 1295 Views
I think you are missunderstanding me darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 02:04:13 AM 1354 Views
Re: Egwene would hand Nynaeve her ass Datakim - 05/02/2010 07:49:27 PM 1905 Views
Totally agree. *NM* Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 07:52:48 PM 1325 Views
yet RJ has told us that Nynaeve would barely pass the AS test darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 09:41:09 PM 1330 Views
Re: yet RJ has told us that Nynaeve would barely pass the AS test Datakim - 05/02/2010 10:00:11 PM 1235 Views
Nynaeve might have trouble... Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 10:24:56 PM 1338 Views
That's not what RJ said. He said Nynaeve would be a little hard pressed Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 10:18:42 PM 1140 Views
she might be a little hard pressed to pass a test she should pass without thought! darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:56:38 PM 1033 Views
Moiraine was hard pressed to pass, and she practiced for ages and is the #1 Battle AS. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:27:26 PM 1259 Views
she passed pretty easily IMO darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:12:13 PM 1344 Views
Just like Be'lal did? And Lanfear's already learned that lesson the hard way. Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 01:40:45 AM 1211 Views
Re: Just like Be'lal did? And Lanfear's already learned that lesson the hard way. darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:52:40 AM 1319 Views
Yes, but choosing the time to attack is part of how good a fighter someone is. Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 06:30:55 PM 1190 Views
The test for the Shawl has little to nothing to do with channeling, you know this right? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 10:23:16 PM 793 Views
Are you being serious? *NM* Sidious - 06/02/2010 08:57:33 AM 845 Views
of course it does darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:48:41 PM 1316 Views
That's not how it happens in New Spring. Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 07:00:52 PM 1202 Views
that's because Moiraine trained and is relatively skilled (for AS) darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 07:34:05 PM 1312 Views
That's nonsensical. Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 09:02:13 PM 1310 Views
It's what RJ said ... "too much specialization" darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:14:38 PM 1213 Views
Well, if RJ said it, I guess it must be true. Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 11:17:19 PM 1228 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 12:59:00 AM 1219 Views
Towers of Midnight spoilers: Fanatic-Templar - 09/11/2010 05:29:05 AM 1233 Views
Re: That's not how it happens in New Spring. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:28:52 PM 1201 Views
Right... Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 08:58:04 PM 1145 Views
About splitting weaves 14 ways Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 10:55:28 PM 1317 Views
Re: About splitting weaves 14 ways Datakim - 05/02/2010 11:08:50 PM 1148 Views
Can you provide that quote? darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 07:34:49 PM 1282 Views
Re: Can you provide that quote? Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 08:19:08 PM 1286 Views
Yup, plus those were complex weaves that may have required multiple flows. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:30:52 PM 1253 Views
there is nothing to say that multiple weaves are involved. darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:16:29 PM 1210 Views
That's the nature on the weaving. Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 09:24:39 PM 1261 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 10:46:52 PM 1294 Views
Yes, really Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 10:55:22 PM 1309 Views
Re: Yes, really Datakim - 06/02/2010 11:29:17 PM 1201 Views
Re: Yes, really Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 11:48:14 PM 1185 Views
Re: Yes, really Datakim - 07/02/2010 12:18:12 AM 1254 Views
Oh! Forgot another analogy Datakim - 07/02/2010 01:13:27 AM 1211 Views
Re: Yes, really Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 01:46:14 AM 1209 Views
Re: Yes, really Datakim - 07/02/2010 01:59:44 AM 1138 Views
Re: Yes, really Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 06:36:48 PM 1208 Views
Re: Can you provide that quote? Datakim - 06/02/2010 10:14:24 PM 1194 Views
1 Blossom = 1 Weave ... there is nothing to say that each thread requires splitting flows darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 10:48:11 PM 1279 Views
Fine, I used the word weave when I should have used flow. 36 flows to create 12 weaves. *NM* Datakim - 06/02/2010 10:57:09 PM 767 Views
IMO fighting with the Power has little to do with skill Sidious - 06/02/2010 09:01:23 AM 1225 Views
Re: IMO fighting with the Power has little to do with skill Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 09:29:06 AM 1368 Views
I agree ... it's much like Rand's approach to Graendal darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:51:17 PM 1263 Views
so you've learned nothing from Cyndane v. Alivia. darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:45:19 PM 1172 Views
Cyndane v. Alivia are probably of similar strength. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:33:08 PM 1306 Views
Re: Cyndane v. Alivia are probably of similar strength. darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:17:40 PM 1299 Views
It's a lone example contested by many other examples Sidious - 07/02/2010 09:53:51 AM 1211 Views
the only dueling where a channeler tries to overpower is Nynaeve v. Moghedien darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:57:43 PM 1296 Views
Re: the only dueling where a channeler tries to overpower is Nynaeve v. Moghedien Sidious - 07/02/2010 04:25:57 PM 1203 Views
from RJs lips to your ears ... darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 06:55:27 PM 1311 Views
Re: from RJs lips to your ears ... Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 08:04:57 PM 1145 Views
Re: from RJs lips to your ears ... darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 08:20:31 PM 1138 Views
... but I can't let this one go... Sidious - 07/02/2010 11:09:04 PM 1388 Views
Thank you Robert, Sidious, Jordan darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 11:16:30 PM 1382 Views
Re: Thank you Robert, Sidious, Jordan Sidious - 08/02/2010 09:43:15 AM 1178 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 07/02/2010 11:05:00 PM 1205 Views
if you had points worth responding too I would ... as always you fall back on pretending you are RJ darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 11:07:37 PM 1300 Views
i.e. I back up my points by using RJ's written words and their validity irritates you *NM* Sidious - 07/02/2010 11:11:55 PM 1214 Views
Re: i.e. I back up my points by using RJ's written words and their validity irritates you darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 11:18:49 PM 1260 Views
Yeah, what's a couple of fights with a Forsaken? How's Egwene without her sa'angreal crutch? Cannoli - 05/02/2010 11:40:13 PM 1174 Views
I disagree Kieran - 06/02/2010 05:30:40 AM 1186 Views
Egwene never even got into that fight and we are talking about Lanfear darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:46:27 PM 1239 Views
Re: Egwene never even got into that fight and we are talking about Lanfear Kieran - 06/02/2010 08:23:20 PM 1226 Views
she got hit with a pain weave before she did a damn thing darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:21:11 PM 1235 Views
lol Kieran - 07/02/2010 01:55:18 AM 1239 Views
Go look below at some of the quotes I've provided darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:59:51 AM 1283 Views
If the Power was used, I would agree BlackAdder - 06/02/2010 05:59:14 PM 1227 Views
On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2010 10:43:43 PM 1156 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 10:49:49 PM 1180 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 11:12:27 PM 2472 Views
plenty of evidence that Nynaeve is unskilled outside of Healing darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:21:20 AM 1298 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 - 07/02/2010 08:02:40 AM 1279 Views
There was one other very skilled Healer in the series... Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 06:44:41 PM 1202 Views
I'm sure she could if she bothered to train darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 06:57:17 PM 1049 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... Datakim - 06/02/2010 11:15:59 PM 1215 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:26:19 AM 1250 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 - 07/02/2010 08:21:19 AM 1412 Views
Egwene and Nynaeve had already confront each other Elvira_Sedai - 07/02/2010 08:45:23 AM 1337 Views
but whoever wins fistofpainx - 05/02/2010 04:54:52 AM 1280 Views
*nods* That's cuz ... Yondaime - 05/02/2010 05:26:57 AM 1337 Views
I actually think Lan would win darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 04:57:24 PM 1272 Views
Agreed Myrdhyn - 05/02/2010 08:22:26 PM 1240 Views
If it was for "real" Lan wins, in practice ... Gawyn could be the superior *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 09:43:20 PM 683 Views
I think Lan, hands down. Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 03:30:20 PM 1135 Views
THANK you. Cannoli - 05/02/2010 11:41:43 PM 9767 Views
Re: THANK you. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 06:26:04 AM 1244 Views
Gawyn and Galad have become tough Sidious - 06/02/2010 09:04:25 AM 1413 Views
Re: Gawyn and Galad have become tough Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 09:31:51 AM 1115 Views
Gawyn is destined to protect the Great Mother ( Egwene ) Elvira_Sedai - 05/02/2010 04:11:51 PM 1300 Views
You forgot that the Warder Matched Lan A LONG time ago. Lan stopped sparring. amirebram - 05/02/2010 08:42:49 PM 1117 Views
Hopper!!!!! *NM* NaClH2O - 06/02/2010 12:21:25 AM 784 Views
Hasn't Hopper already lost in a fight? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 01:48:19 AM 752 Views
According to the Theoryland database RJ apparently said once... Etzel - 06/02/2010 08:55:50 AM 1299 Views
That can't be right, can it? BlackAdder - 06/02/2010 05:51:04 PM 1278 Views
Even in NS only Ryne is known to be better than Lan darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 1330 Views
Huh .... Yondaime - 06/02/2010 06:23:10 PM 1285 Views
I don't recall Rand loosing to Riatin. Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 06:39:31 PM 1273 Views
Well, to be fair, the text doesn't mention much Yondaime - 07/02/2010 12:48:59 AM 1247 Views
Re: According to the Theoryland database RJ apparently said once... Gerbeaud - 06/02/2010 06:28:15 PM 1245 Views
"Gawhine"... I like it. *NM* Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:40:32 PM 778 Views
If Gawyn is the best because he defeated two Warders, what about Rand? Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 09:15:34 PM 1255 Views
These are pointless. Heiko - 09/02/2010 12:52:21 AM 1298 Views
These are scalar comparatives JasonD - 24/02/2010 09:45:11 PM 1268 Views
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