Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon
Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM
I said "personal glory", not "revenge". Of course Siuan has a motive to help Egwene, but she could easily have supported Lelaine or Romanda with similar results (her support would have tipped that balance, I am sure).
And as Egwene said, the Stilling and Deposing of Siuan was invalid since there were BA in the Hall, so technically Siuan is still Amyrlin.
Most of all though, Siuan has been a constant friend and mentor. It is made clear by RJ/Brandon in Rand's chapters that when he gets angry at friends who disobey orders or criticise him for the right reasons (for example, Nynaeve telling him not to strike at the Borderlanders), he is wrong to be angry (and in fact, we see that he even knows and understands that Nynaeve is correct).
Contrast this with Egwene, who knows that the Seanchan could still be around (she never even asks about or considers the huge danger posed by the BloodKnives, one of whom could easily have killed her) while she was unconcious after the battle. Her own logic of her self-importance dictates that her life is invaluable at this point, so why she got angry at Siuan for preserving it is completely irrational. Why is Egwene any better than Rand in this case? I think that in fact, she is WORSE, because she fails to think about WHY the order was disobeyed, and she can't understand or forgive a friend (who has not once failed her) for it.
And as I said, Siuan accepting the judgement means nothing. A major theme in Egwene's plot line is that just because nobody protests an action, does not make that action right.
And as Egwene said, the Stilling and Deposing of Siuan was invalid since there were BA in the Hall, so technically Siuan is still Amyrlin.
Most of all though, Siuan has been a constant friend and mentor. It is made clear by RJ/Brandon in Rand's chapters that when he gets angry at friends who disobey orders or criticise him for the right reasons (for example, Nynaeve telling him not to strike at the Borderlanders), he is wrong to be angry (and in fact, we see that he even knows and understands that Nynaeve is correct).
Contrast this with Egwene, who knows that the Seanchan could still be around (she never even asks about or considers the huge danger posed by the BloodKnives, one of whom could easily have killed her) while she was unconcious after the battle. Her own logic of her self-importance dictates that her life is invaluable at this point, so why she got angry at Siuan for preserving it is completely irrational. Why is Egwene any better than Rand in this case? I think that in fact, she is WORSE, because she fails to think about WHY the order was disobeyed, and she can't understand or forgive a friend (who has not once failed her) for it.
And as I said, Siuan accepting the judgement means nothing. A major theme in Egwene's plot line is that just because nobody protests an action, does not make that action right.
God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene
- 14/02/2010 07:02:20 AM
2711 Views
My sentiments exactly, though I think I'm a little more hopeful than you are.
- 14/02/2010 07:58:01 AM
1229 Views
Re: My sentiments exactly, though I think I'm a little more hopeful than you are.
- 14/02/2010 09:26:47 AM
1032 Views
Just like Elayne treated him so well when she kicked him out of Andor?
- 14/02/2010 01:35:32 PM
872 Views
What? We are no longer allowed to make predictions of the coming books unless they're pro-Egwene?
- 14/02/2010 02:22:10 PM
979 Views
a theory vs. mindlessly attacking a character because you don't like them?
- 14/02/2010 07:00:27 PM
962 Views
It IS kind of ridiculous... but how do YOU think a meeting will go?
- 14/02/2010 07:20:08 PM
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Is Egwene going to do what Elayne did when she met Rand after tearing down his banners?
- 15/02/2010 11:25:27 AM
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You just KNOW that rather than compliment all the good he's done....
- 14/02/2010 03:06:09 PM
822 Views
Personally, I'm rooting for Elaida's Foretelling to be fake
- 14/02/2010 06:56:41 PM
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No way these are fake... she's not BA and she she says she's having a Foretelling
- 14/02/2010 08:24:29 PM
1001 Views
Good point. And the "rent in fire and blood" part is almost certain as well.
- 16/02/2010 05:13:29 PM
763 Views
Take a sedative
- 14/02/2010 07:52:32 PM
1001 Views
None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping
- 14/02/2010 09:01:35 PM
968 Views
Right cause Nynaeve is always going around telling people how much Mat's changed
- 14/02/2010 09:27:02 PM
978 Views
If you'll recall what Mat did 5 minutes after...
- 14/02/2010 11:06:41 PM
1005 Views
Not really
- 14/02/2010 11:34:49 PM
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Re: Not really
- 15/02/2010 03:32:06 PM
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better than Nynaeve who just lies to herself in order to justify her actions!
- 15/02/2010 05:53:17 PM
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This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve.
- 15/02/2010 06:09:46 PM
956 Views
actually it's about all of the main characters
- 15/02/2010 06:13:27 PM
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Re: actually it's about all of the main characters
- 15/02/2010 06:39:25 PM
1005 Views
Well said.
- 15/02/2010 07:20:47 PM
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Re: Well said.
- 15/02/2010 07:43:08 PM
865 Views
yet even Siuan seems to understand and accept Egwene's response ... odd that you can hold her to
- 16/02/2010 01:55:35 AM
801 Views
Oh, so Elaida's treatment of Sheremin is ok because Sheremin accepted it?
- 16/02/2010 06:49:53 AM
958 Views
watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon
- 16/02/2010 01:51:09 AM
1001 Views
Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon
- 16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM
967 Views
Alright enough. Will you read the books already?
- 16/02/2010 08:03:39 AM
1027 Views
The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason
- 16/02/2010 01:34:30 AM
807 Views
Re: The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason
- 16/02/2010 07:08:13 AM
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Yes, but Egwene's is pride -
- 15/02/2010 07:04:25 PM
912 Views
I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none
- 15/02/2010 08:52:54 PM
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Re: None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping
- 15/02/2010 05:08:49 AM
939 Views
It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
- 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM
870 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
- 15/02/2010 08:41:02 AM
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Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
- 15/02/2010 03:31:26 PM
996 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
- 15/02/2010 11:57:24 AM
1152 Views
Who says Egwene didn't have a destiny? *NM*
- 15/02/2010 12:46:10 PM
546 Views
Me. And I'm way smarter than you.
- 15/02/2010 01:04:48 PM
967 Views
- 15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM
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- 15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM
1021 Views
Re:
- 15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM
892 Views
- 15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM
892 Views
Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main
- 16/02/2010 01:32:45 AM
853 Views
Re: Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main
- 16/02/2010 07:09:52 AM
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Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
- 15/02/2010 03:48:51 PM
1045 Views
Sidious' problem in a nutshell.
- 15/02/2010 11:27:12 AM
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Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene
- 14/02/2010 07:56:23 PM
919 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene
- 14/02/2010 08:55:58 PM
867 Views
I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then
- 14/02/2010 08:59:26 PM
984 Views
Re: I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then
- 14/02/2010 09:24:23 PM
820 Views
I don't think so
- 14/02/2010 09:30:41 PM
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Re: I don't think so
- 15/02/2010 03:45:52 PM
947 Views
That's pretty much how I see it too
- 15/02/2010 05:54:14 PM
871 Views
I understood little sister to be a mild insult, Moiraine being so young and weak in the OP *NM*
- 16/02/2010 08:25:55 PM
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maybe a touch patronizing? *NM*
- 17/02/2010 12:51:25 PM
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Appears to be, but his thought process implies it's not as simple as him merely looking down on her. *NM*
- 17/02/2010 05:07:19 PM
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand
- 14/02/2010 08:05:40 PM
1090 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand
- 14/02/2010 11:55:40 PM
990 Views
Cadsuane needs to spank her.
- 15/02/2010 01:31:49 AM
964 Views
yeah, that's worked so well on her in the past
- 15/02/2010 01:48:05 AM
893 Views
It would be a very amusing moment.
- 15/02/2010 03:01:37 AM
845 Views
IMO it would merely be a hypocritical moment of massive proportions
- 15/02/2010 04:45:27 AM
846 Views
and a massive failure
- 15/02/2010 06:57:18 AM
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What Egwene needs is to be shown that her actions could harm the tower.
- 15/02/2010 08:46:30 AM
773 Views
If you hate arrogance, you must hate all the main characters in the series
- 15/02/2010 03:21:48 PM
814 Views
Everyone else is shown to be a bit small minded. Egwene is implied to be Strong And Wise
- 15/02/2010 09:23:47 PM
827 Views
When has she ever actually done that? Rand thinks she will, but so far she's done nothing like it!
- 16/02/2010 02:08:23 AM
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I meant that EVERYONE is bargaining, posturing, etc.
- 16/02/2010 02:54:29 AM
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Well miscommunication is one of the major themes of the series
- 16/02/2010 01:17:25 PM
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the most idiotic theme IMO
- 16/02/2010 03:27:26 PM
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I don't know if the theme itself is idoitic, but I would totally agree that it's gone nowhere!
- 17/02/2010 03:16:30 AM
817 Views
Re: Everyone else is shown to be a bit small minded. Egwene is implied to be Strong And Wise
- 18/02/2010 01:19:00 AM
890 Views
No, Cannoli has the right of it here.
- 16/02/2010 06:22:39 PM
988 Views
Well, all those beatings were in private
- 16/02/2010 07:54:00 PM
900 Views
That was the point of the scene in front of the Sitters during the banquet. *NM*
- 23/02/2010 06:58:50 PM
593 Views
Oh the one where Elaida tried to have her way with Egwene while the Sitters looked away?
*NM*
- 23/02/2010 10:12:04 PM
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*NM*
- 23/02/2010 10:12:04 PM
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Yes. Elaida wanted Egwene to be cowed in front of her into obedience, which would erode her support
- 23/02/2010 10:18:03 PM
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