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That sounds really nice. Vivien Send a noteboard - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM


If we are baptized in this life, the ordinance is done. If we are not, it can be done for us by proxy.

This is one doctrine that has always seemed so logical to me, I never have quite understood the attention and debate it stirs. Christ came to save all men. What about all the people who have never even heard his name? There are still people today who do not know anything about Christ. They have not been baptized, but it's not because they rejected Christ. Are they just out of luck?

Instead, we believe that they can learn the gospel in the afterlife, and can accept it. We perform their baptism for them, and they can choose to accept it or not. But it means it is their choice, not something beyond their control because of circumstances.



I really like this part of your religion. Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.

But then- shouldn't this be an argument *against* missionaries? What if you fail to convince someone and that person rejects Christ in this life. It seems like you'd be able to be more convincing in the afterlife.
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2752 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1477 Views
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Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1286 Views
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Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1227 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 720 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 763 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 751 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1310 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2329 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1278 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 734 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1399 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 735 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 798 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1383 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1336 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1277 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1303 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1211 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1282 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 648 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 863 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 861 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 773 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 697 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 814 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 644 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 969 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 866 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 808 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 825 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 866 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 778 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 916 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 730 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 774 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 807 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 795 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 826 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 787 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 831 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 766 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 899 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 807 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 808 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 707 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 693 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 729 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 764 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 767 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 782 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 922 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 816 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 803 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 767 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1478 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1347 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1321 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1338 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1182 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1261 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1349 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1282 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1336 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1268 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1268 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1351 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1237 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1297 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1408 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1363 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1415 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1573 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1452 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1336 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1568 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1364 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1262 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1357 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1368 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1276 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1373 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1342 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1315 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1311 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 707 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1249 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 755 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 731 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1121 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1262 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1310 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1251 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1285 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1326 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1342 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1238 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1332 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1388 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1344 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1259 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1570 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1698 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1301 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1308 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1302 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1270 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1335 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1694 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1215 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1319 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1510 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 673 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1264 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1324 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1215 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1261 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1494 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1298 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1117 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1237 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 811 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1474 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1239 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1434 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1226 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1351 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1429 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 730 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1447 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1209 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1362 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1325 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1392 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1255 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 800 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1377 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1294 Views
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