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That sounds really nice. Vivien Send a noteboard - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM


If we are baptized in this life, the ordinance is done. If we are not, it can be done for us by proxy.

This is one doctrine that has always seemed so logical to me, I never have quite understood the attention and debate it stirs. Christ came to save all men. What about all the people who have never even heard his name? There are still people today who do not know anything about Christ. They have not been baptized, but it's not because they rejected Christ. Are they just out of luck?

Instead, we believe that they can learn the gospel in the afterlife, and can accept it. We perform their baptism for them, and they can choose to accept it or not. But it means it is their choice, not something beyond their control because of circumstances.



I really like this part of your religion. Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.

But then- shouldn't this be an argument *against* missionaries? What if you fail to convince someone and that person rejects Christ in this life. It seems like you'd be able to be more convincing in the afterlife.
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2789 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1506 Views
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Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1312 Views
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Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1256 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 733 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 779 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 773 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1339 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2355 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1302 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 746 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1425 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 750 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 810 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1406 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1359 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1302 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1333 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1236 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1315 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 659 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 877 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 879 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 798 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 709 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 826 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 656 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 984 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 877 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 823 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 841 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 882 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 792 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 930 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 741 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 788 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 825 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 808 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 841 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 802 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 848 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 777 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 912 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 819 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 824 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 723 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 708 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 746 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 782 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 780 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 798 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 941 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 831 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 819 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 779 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1502 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1371 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1346 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1364 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1220 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1290 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1376 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1307 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1360 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1292 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1298 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1379 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1262 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1324 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1434 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1392 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1450 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1605 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1476 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1365 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1602 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1393 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1289 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1383 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1400 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1300 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1408 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1372 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1339 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1345 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 722 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1271 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 773 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 746 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1146 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1293 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1334 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1285 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1313 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1354 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1375 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1274 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1366 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1414 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1374 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1295 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1603 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1731 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1332 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1336 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1330 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1306 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1360 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1722 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1242 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1343 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1549 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 690 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1291 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1353 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1237 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1281 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1521 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1325 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1145 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1269 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 828 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1499 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1267 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1470 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1257 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1381 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1457 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 749 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1475 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1239 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1392 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1356 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1417 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1284 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 814 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1405 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1319 Views
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