Active Users:243 Time:01/05/2024 08:59:20 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel Send a noteboard - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM
Christians COMMONLY accepted most, if not all, of the Nicene Creed long before the Council of Nicaea. The Council was prompted by that commonly accepted beliefs growing erosion and muddling due to deliberate Gnostic and heretic assaults and a widespread vagueness and ignorance among NEW Christians only beginning to rigorously explore Christology. Thus the Church formally stated its Christology, clarifying what was indisputably Spirit breathed (e.g. the Gospel of John) and what was simply heresy (e.g. Monophysite denial of Christs humanity, Ebionite denial of His divinity, and Gnostic Trojan horses like the "Gospels" of Thomas and Judas.) The Councils of Nicaea and Ephesus brought order out of chaos by the Grace of God, but the idea Christianity had until then been an eclectic equivalent of Gnosticism that simply replaced "gnosis" with "Jesus" in not credible.

Monophysitism didn't even exist as a theology at the time of the Council of Nicaea, as far as I can tell from a quick look at the articles - it certainly didn't become a major controversy until the sixth century, two centuries after Nicaea. Nor is there any reason why monophysites should be considered to deviate from the Nicene Creed.

As it happens, that actually strengthens your case, though. The Copts, Ethiopian Christians and a few smaller groups have a theology that apparently is technically "miaphysite", but might as well be monophysite; this doesn't prevent them from adhering to the Nicene Creed.


Their issues arise from how the human/divine nature(s) of Christ are resolved and the hypostatic union certainly involved enough metaphysical hair splitting to cause those who held to "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" to question just how Christ is fully human and fully divine. It's why the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox consider the Oriental Orthodox to hold to a heretical idea rather than being a different religion, which is how they view Gnostics, Muslims, and yes, Mormons. In fact, Islam is considered by Catholics to have a more sound Christology than the Mormon faith because of the cosmology involved.

Can see that last part, too, but I will try to stay focused for once. Monophysitism seems to state pretty clearly that Christs human nature disappeared into His divine one, reducing the "was made man" part of the Nicene Creed to an entirely temporary condition: Christ WAS briefly human for the purpose of the Incarnation, but is not now human in any sense because His humanity was lost within his divinity.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2294 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1056 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 909 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 910 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1013 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 833 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 954 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 593 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 847 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 522 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 568 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 550 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 888 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 1897 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 863 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 516 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 952 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 531 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 550 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 939 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 894 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 852 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 889 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 816 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 866 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 439 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 666 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 558 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 557 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 498 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 590 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 445 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 772 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 660 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 606 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 636 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 668 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 566 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 706 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 531 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 552 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 582 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 613 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 607 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 575 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 617 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 567 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 672 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 572 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 604 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 513 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 498 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 520 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 527 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 577 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 597 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 691 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 603 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 576 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 550 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1044 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 943 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 916 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 868 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 799 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 830 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 895 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 864 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 858 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 889 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 871 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 946 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 823 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 884 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 990 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 882 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 971 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1135 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1000 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 898 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1099 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 924 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 843 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 922 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 945 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 827 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 910 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 919 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 893 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 900 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 497 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 809 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 554 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 516 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 703 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 863 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 868 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 819 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 862 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 884 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 902 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 765 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 842 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 905 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 894 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 793 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1141 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1269 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 824 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 891 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 902 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 790 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 889 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1254 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 796 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 858 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1047 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 484 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 880 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 893 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 831 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 779 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1014 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 881 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 716 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 857 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 618 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1033 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 837 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 986 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 785 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 900 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1015 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 524 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1009 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 827 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 942 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 876 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 970 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 850 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 611 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 938 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 848 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes