Active Users:1196 Time:27/09/2026 12:41:14 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry Send a noteboard - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM
Christians COMMONLY accepted most, if not all, of the Nicene Creed long before the Council of Nicaea. The Council was prompted by that commonly accepted beliefs growing erosion and muddling due to deliberate Gnostic and heretic assaults and a widespread vagueness and ignorance among NEW Christians only beginning to rigorously explore Christology. Thus the Church formally stated its Christology, clarifying what was indisputably Spirit breathed (e.g. the Gospel of John) and what was simply heresy (e.g. Monophysite denial of Christs humanity, Ebionite denial of His divinity, and Gnostic Trojan horses like the "Gospels" of Thomas and Judas.) The Councils of Nicaea and Ephesus brought order out of chaos by the Grace of God, but the idea Christianity had until then been an eclectic equivalent of Gnosticism that simply replaced "gnosis" with "Jesus" in not credible.

Monophysitism didn't even exist as a theology at the time of the Council of Nicaea, as far as I can tell from a quick look at the articles - it certainly didn't become a major controversy until the sixth century, two centuries after Nicaea. Nor is there any reason why monophysites should be considered to deviate from the Nicene Creed.

As it happens, that actually strengthens your case, though. The Copts, Ethiopian Christians and a few smaller groups have a theology that apparently is technically "miaphysite", but might as well be monophysite; this doesn't prevent them from adhering to the Nicene Creed.


Their issues arise from how the human/divine nature(s) of Christ are resolved and the hypostatic union certainly involved enough metaphysical hair splitting to cause those who held to "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" to question just how Christ is fully human and fully divine. It's why the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox consider the Oriental Orthodox to hold to a heretical idea rather than being a different religion, which is how they view Gnostics, Muslims, and yes, Mormons. In fact, Islam is considered by Catholics to have a more sound Christology than the Mormon faith because of the cosmology involved.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
Reply to message
Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2764 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1489 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 1335 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 1387 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1462 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1298 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 1370 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 798 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1235 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 727 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 769 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 764 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1327 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2339 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1287 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 738 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1413 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 742 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 802 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1389 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1344 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1287 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1318 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1226 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1296 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 653 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 870 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 868 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 783 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 701 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 820 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 648 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 975 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 871 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 813 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 834 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 871 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 784 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 921 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 733 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 779 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 813 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 800 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 829 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 791 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 834 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 769 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 905 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 811 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 816 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 714 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 698 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 734 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 772 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 770 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 786 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 930 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 821 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 808 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 772 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1485 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1354 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1333 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1347 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1201 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1272 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1362 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1290 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1346 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1274 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1278 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1360 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1247 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1310 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1416 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1380 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1430 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1586 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1461 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1347 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1587 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1377 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1273 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1366 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1380 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1285 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1387 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1361 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1323 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1328 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 713 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1256 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 762 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 735 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1130 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1272 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1316 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1263 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1297 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1336 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1355 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1252 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1351 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1396 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1354 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1273 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1583 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1711 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1312 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1319 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1316 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1287 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1344 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1704 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1227 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1330 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1529 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 680 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1273 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1336 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1219 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1267 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1508 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1311 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1132 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1251 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 818 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1487 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1252 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1447 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1232 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1359 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1443 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 737 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1464 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1224 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1372 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1336 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1402 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1267 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 805 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1385 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1304 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes