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Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher Send a noteboard - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM


If we are baptized in this life, the ordinance is done. If we are not, it can be done for us by proxy.

This is one doctrine that has always seemed so logical to me, I never have quite understood the attention and debate it stirs. Christ came to save all men. What about all the people who have never even heard his name? There are still people today who do not know anything about Christ. They have not been baptized, but it's not because they rejected Christ. Are they just out of luck?

Instead, we believe that they can learn the gospel in the afterlife, and can accept it. We perform their baptism for them, and they can choose to accept it or not. But it means it is their choice, not something beyond their control because of circumstances.



I really like this part of your religion. Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.

But then- shouldn't this be an argument *against* missionaries? What if you fail to convince someone and that person rejects Christ in this life. It seems like you'd be able to be more convincing in the afterlife.


But a person must have a clear chance to accept it. There isn't any clear definition what that means, because it's different for every person. If the missionaries knock, and get a door slammed in their face, it likely doesn't mean the person's chance is up. They didn't know enough to reject it. So if the missionaries "fail to convince someone" like you said, it doesn't necessarily mean they're out of luck.

And though it does seem like it'd be impossible to not believe the gospel if you are actually in the afterlife, it will happen. Doesn't make much sense, but I don't think our mortal minds are that good at comprehending non-mortal existence.

And then, beside all that, living the gospel is the key to true joy. It's the difference of helping people find happiness now, as opposed to up to 100 years later on.

Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.


It might be a personal question, but why do you think this? I don't care what you've done. You're never too unworthy to pray to God. You can always be forgiven if you are sincere in asking. Please don't think you are beyond help.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
2-7-1
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Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 747 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 720 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1277 Views
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We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1251 Views
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Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 733 Views
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I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 947 Views
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Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 787 Views
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You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 849 Views
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Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 751 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 764 Views
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Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 805 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 766 Views
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you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 742 Views
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I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 669 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 698 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 722 Views
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I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 779 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 741 Views
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you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1309 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1284 Views
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I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1149 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1217 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1303 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1244 Views
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I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1236 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1233 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1320 Views
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The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1264 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1371 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1327 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1368 Views
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I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1403 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1303 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1518 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1333 Views
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Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1323 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1330 Views
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They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 720 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 711 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1082 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1222 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1274 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1212 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1247 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1292 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1311 Views
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Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1265 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1346 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1311 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1216 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1524 Views
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Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1245 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1264 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1269 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1207 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1284 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1663 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1179 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1286 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1442 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 651 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1238 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1284 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1168 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1227 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1451 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1264 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1078 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1202 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 787 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1439 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1201 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1388 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1187 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1302 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1393 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 707 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1417 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1174 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1326 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1282 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1357 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1218 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 779 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1337 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1259 Views
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