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That is a little unfair. Joel Send a noteboard - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM
Implanon and IUDs both last for years at a time, and have sub-1% failure rates. I am not sure how readily PP provides these, but they are definitely solutions to the biggest problem of birth control, which is human error.

If the healthcare law and the DHHS ruling classifying birth control as preventive care both stand, all of these will soon be available to everyone with no copay. (Of course, the "pro-life" movement is fighting this tooth and nail, because preventing abortions isn't really their primary goal.)


I don't think they see the link between that and preventing unplanned pregnancy though, unless they only want to allow for abstinence as the route to that.

If they haven't looked, then they're not serious about what they claim is their overriding goal, which is my point.

Yes, most of them only want to support abstinence. That's because the "pro-life" movement is really about enforcing specific, oppressive sexual mores.

In many cases it is less supporting abstinence than supporting it for MINORS. That is not solely about oppressive or even repressive mores (thought it often involves them, too) hence laws against it virtually everywhere, even in quite sexually liberated countries. The definition of "minor" varies by locale, and there is often some latitude when both (or however many) partners are close to the same age, but, generally speaking, sex with or without contraception is discouraged in minors. Ironically, the few demographics that ARE sexually oppressed in many respects tend to most indulge sex with minors—provided it is duly sanctioned by the family of all girls involved, and the local religious authority. Yet even in those cases the result is de jure majority, though it often amounts to little more than transfer of ownership.

Put simply, the greatest moral imperative for abstinence-only birth control is often just preventing minors "being taken advantage of." Parents and nations understandably oppose raping children, either by force or manipulation.

That is without considering things like parents worrying fourteen year olds who ignore their stodgy and paranoid fears about their children having sex are just as apt to ignore stodgy paranoid fears about not using birth control. Likewise many boys who can talk a girl out of her panties can talk themselves out of a condom as easily (i.e. a boy who can "take advantage of a girl" often needs no birth control to do it.)

There are other concerns that have little or nothing to do with sexual oppression (oppression? Truly?) I am setting aside Implanon because

1) I try to avoid drugs on the market <10 years (i.e. during the final/first large scale human trial) because of things like

2) "The manufacturer advises 'Expect your menstrual periods to be irregular and unpredictable throughout the time you are using IMPLANON™'. It is not known whether Implanon changes a woman's risk for breast cancer" and

3) this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12117299

On the one hand, it has been on the market just over 10 years in the UK; on the other hand, well, perfect=typical use...? Not so much. :(

I would move to Depo-Provera instead, which has been around about twice as long, but a TON of groups in various countries oppose it, and most are womens health groups. Apparently, endometrial cancer had NEVER been diagnosed in rhesus monkeys—prior to Depo-Provera trials. http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1985/02/problems-us.html Moving on....

NuvaRing does not look too bad based on a little preliminary digging just now, and it will have been on the market 10 years come July, with a typical annual failure rate of 8%. The "perfect" failure rate is only about 1%, but "perfect" abstinence has a failure rate of about 0.000000001%, and thus obviously superior by that metric (by nine orders of magnitude. :P) There are about a million teen pregnancies per year in the US; ignoring the fact many US teens already use some kind of birth control, putting them all on the US contraception proven safest and most effective would still leave about 80,000 teen pregnancies per year.

Even parents unconcerned about their children being pressured and/or physically forced into sex will still worry about falling into that unfortunate 8%. Even those with no moral objection to abortion usually realize it is often so traumatic many women also lacking moral objections nonetheless choose hysterectomy or tubal ligation instead. Those who DO object to abortion—but ONLY abortion, not contraception or premarital sex—usually object to their children sacrificing educations and/or good careers to raise a child, and do not want to raise their childrens children to prevent that. It raises the question of how many parents, in this age of accountability and personal responsibility, take their SONS to get condoms compared to how many take their DAUGHTERS to get the pill, patch or implant. Probably less than 20 years ago, thanks to the availability of DNA tests.

In short, many Pro Lifers also prefer abstinence-only sexual education for a host of reasons unrelated to their feelings on premarital sex (which US law also "opposes" when it involves anyone >21, and usually anyone >18.) I agree that is naïve and unrealistic, and they should recognize the need for a fall back position when "NO WIRE HANGERS OR PREMARITAL SEX EVER111" fails. However, there are far more causes than merely oppression, often not a cause at all.

In fact, I imagine it is seldom a cause. I know there are instances of parents locking up kids to prevent sex, and men forcing adult girlfriends/wifes to bear children (in an infamous recent case, a German man was discovered to have done BOTH for decades) but I doubt there are 80,000 in the US. In other words, the number of Americans denied contraception through genuine OPPRESSION is probably far less than those unintentionally pregnant when freely obtained contraception FAILS.

On a completely unrelated note, I have not forgotten I have owed you a response in another thread since a few weeks before Christmas, but between the holidays and an online class plus an in building class I got sidetracked. Since the thread is so old you should expect a NB some time reasonably soon, with apologies for delay. :<img class=' />
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Implanon side effects, to the extent known since girls younger than it began INGESTING it.
This message last edited by Joel on 03/02/2012 at 12:49:36 PM
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Susan G. Komen cuts funds to Planned Parenthood. (with updated edit) - 02/02/2012 04:32:27 PM 2406 Views
The most annoying part is in the sixth paragraph- abortions are only a small part of their thing - 02/02/2012 05:08:07 PM 1286 Views
I agree. - 02/02/2012 05:20:17 PM 1168 Views
I can understand it though. - 02/02/2012 05:45:55 PM 1250 Views
I can too, it just isn't for me. - 02/02/2012 05:58:33 PM 1171 Views
Actually, there are longer-acting forms of birth control than the pill. - 03/02/2012 12:37:42 AM 1167 Views
I do think that preventing abortions is their primary goal. - 03/02/2012 01:08:05 AM 1125 Views
If they don't see that link, it's because they haven't looked. - 03/02/2012 02:42:42 AM 1231 Views
That is a little unfair. - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM 1463 Views
Won't someone please think of the children?! - 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM 1215 Views
I think you're leaving out some important points. - 04/02/2012 03:40:48 PM 1140 Views
Ah, the good ol' silent majority. - 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM 1131 Views
So which moron is feeding you this crap? - 04/02/2012 10:27:15 PM 1185 Views
A zygote isn't a person, because it doesn't have a brain. - 05/02/2012 12:33:29 AM 1149 Views
It worries me when we think alike.... - 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM 1226 Views
Brain waves at 8 weeks are a myth. - 05/02/2012 08:46:06 PM 1305 Views
"brain function... appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks' gestation." - 05/02/2012 10:42:35 PM 1219 Views
Oh please. - 05/02/2012 11:13:50 PM 1169 Views
Re: Oh please yourself. - 06/02/2012 09:15:26 PM 1043 Views
Quite a telling reply. - 07/02/2012 04:38:20 AM 1141 Views
Re: I quite agree. - 08/02/2012 06:03:23 PM 1339 Views
You're taking an issue of objective facts and treating it like a day of playground gossip. - 09/02/2012 03:47:06 AM 1148 Views
No, your source, in which there is very little that is objective, did that for me. - 11/02/2012 02:59:45 AM 1218 Views
I see you have continued to provide no factual arguments. - 14/02/2012 04:53:28 AM 1476 Views
I presented factual rebuttals. - 19/02/2012 01:56:45 AM 1238 Views
You continue to miss the point. - 23/02/2012 10:22:24 PM 1329 Views
Well, yes. - 04/02/2012 11:14:47 PM 1236 Views
A silent majority may as well not exist, if it has no tangible effects. - 05/02/2012 12:54:34 AM 1157 Views
You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM 1259 Views
Ignoring what? You haven't shown me anything solid. - 05/02/2012 05:25:23 AM 1145 Views
It's ok, we're done. *NM* - 05/02/2012 09:29:05 AM 689 Views
Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. - 04/02/2012 08:25:49 PM 1311 Views
Re: Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. - 05/02/2012 02:11:28 AM 1158 Views
If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 05/02/2012 08:42:17 AM 1004 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 05/02/2012 10:04:59 PM 1184 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 06/02/2012 08:57:38 PM 1127 Views
I'm done discussing my use of the term "oppression." The Tim Ryan stuff is interesting, though. - 07/02/2012 05:37:05 AM 1259 Views
Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 08/02/2012 06:01:32 PM 1357 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 09/02/2012 05:30:58 AM 1210 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 11/02/2012 02:58:00 AM 1227 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 14/02/2012 04:29:08 AM 1323 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 19/02/2012 01:54:30 AM 1207 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 23/02/2012 10:59:32 PM 1528 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 07/03/2012 01:47:44 AM 1183 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 15/03/2012 10:27:23 PM 1443 Views
There are problems with the implants - 03/02/2012 01:42:55 AM 1196 Views
You have a talent for understatement. - 03/02/2012 01:08:40 PM 1198 Views
I agree that they have made Beast Cancer a cult but splitting with PP is just smart - 02/02/2012 05:39:49 PM 1338 Views
I agree. - 02/02/2012 06:00:17 PM 1124 Views
yes she is going to have to piss off one group or the other - 02/02/2012 06:12:31 PM 1170 Views
Right - 02/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1228 Views
Do you see a way Komen could have avoided pissing off one side? - 02/02/2012 06:55:36 PM 1162 Views
No, I don't. I don't believe I said that? - 02/02/2012 07:53:50 PM 1074 Views
You didn't; I inferred it from the way you phrased that ("if she HAS to..."). Sorry. - 02/02/2012 08:06:11 PM 1178 Views
I know I'm not always clear. - 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM 1158 Views
Just curious... - 02/02/2012 10:07:49 PM 1143 Views
Not at all. - 02/02/2012 10:24:19 PM 1207 Views
Not at all? - 02/02/2012 10:32:31 PM 1109 Views
No. - 02/02/2012 10:47:04 PM 1045 Views
My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes - 02/02/2012 11:17:24 PM 1142 Views
Re: My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes - 03/02/2012 12:08:01 AM 1138 Views
wow that may be the worst advice I had in weeks - 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM 1119 Views
Ooor, the best. - 03/02/2012 12:25:56 AM 1105 Views
ok now you are just being mean *NM* - 03/02/2012 12:46:12 AM 671 Views
The thread was going too well - I thought we needed the meanness. *NM* - 03/02/2012 11:30:39 AM 625 Views
rabble rouser *NM* - 04/02/2012 04:24:01 AM 690 Views
I misread this at first - 03/02/2012 12:51:44 AM 1163 Views
not to mention codeine seems to make me double post - 02/02/2012 11:17:26 PM 2201 Views
I'm not so sure I agree. Or not completely. - 02/02/2012 06:14:11 PM 1084 Views
I don't diagree with the way you see it - 02/02/2012 06:39:41 PM 1155 Views
More inevitable than anything, considering who started Komen. - 02/02/2012 10:19:34 PM 1104 Views
Never having heard of any of those except PP, my opinion may not be the most relevant... - 02/02/2012 08:32:48 PM 1212 Views
You don't know stuff. - 02/02/2012 08:43:38 PM 1197 Views
I know the stuff that matters. - 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM 1083 Views
That's true. - 02/02/2012 10:34:32 PM 1194 Views
they may also be a afraid that PP will go the way of ACORN - 02/02/2012 11:04:16 PM 1233 Views
"Accused" of = unfounded slander. - 03/02/2012 12:13:30 AM 1278 Views
This is so foreign a debate for me - 02/02/2012 10:16:15 PM 1216 Views
Must be nice. *NM* - 03/02/2012 12:26:49 AM 719 Views
Re: stuff - 03/02/2012 09:18:53 AM 1084 Views
I'm sorry, but what're we talking about when we're talking about "cancer" - 03/02/2012 12:49:34 PM 1145 Views
Obviously not adenocarcinoma, no. - 04/02/2012 07:36:06 AM 1226 Views
I"m not that fussed. I'm just generally leary of research that has results like that - 04/02/2012 08:35:04 PM 1084 Views
Fair enough. - 04/02/2012 10:17:31 PM 1231 Views
They restored funding incidentally - 03/02/2012 05:43:47 PM 1099 Views
Unless I've missed it - 03/02/2012 05:56:15 PM 1164 Views
You must have missed it then - 03/02/2012 07:07:13 PM 1102 Views
If you're referring to Cannoli - 03/02/2012 07:19:25 PM 1261 Views
Multiple was not an accidental choice of words - 03/02/2012 11:46:30 PM 1144 Views
Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. - 04/02/2012 12:41:42 AM 1176 Views
Re: Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. - 04/02/2012 01:53:25 AM 1357 Views
Well, I'll try again for both of us. - 04/02/2012 02:56:42 PM 1208 Views
Re: Well, I'll try again for both of us. - 04/02/2012 07:40:25 PM 1160 Views
well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision - 03/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1280 Views
I think that ship sailed long ago. - 03/02/2012 08:45:13 PM 1096 Views
Truth - 04/02/2012 02:07:20 AM 1185 Views
I do wonder a bit which lawmakers Fox thinks "pressured" Komen. - 03/02/2012 08:29:50 PM 1093 Views
are you trying to disprove the study you posted? - 03/02/2012 09:20:12 PM 1244 Views
To me, it depends on the nature of the contact, which I have not dug enough to discover. - 03/02/2012 10:43:45 PM 1104 Views
you admit you have no incite into what happened - 04/02/2012 04:27:17 AM 1175 Views
Actually, it looks like Komens new VP (and former GOP GA gubernatorial candidate) had the incite. - 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM 1188 Views
educated guess don't work when you are tinfoil hat wearing kool-aid drinker - 04/02/2012 09:33:49 PM 1116 Views
Dude. - 04/02/2012 11:20:49 PM 1010 Views
Yo mama? - 05/02/2012 05:32:11 AM 1213 Views
whhhhhhyyyyyy - 04/02/2012 11:23:58 PM 1183 Views
Why would I not think that? - 05/02/2012 05:46:15 AM 1035 Views

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