There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD:
Joel Send a noteboard - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM
1) We have very little original documents that are 1600 years old. Note I said 1600 and not 1800 or 1900. This document would have more religious authority weight if it was not 300 to 400 years removed from the time of Christ.
2) Most people do not know anything about Christian history, because of which most people don't know there were hundreds of Jesus stories. most people don't know the modern new testament was organized around 367 AD (also known as Common Era), and it wasn't till 180 AD that people actually started to state that the 4 gospels are the only gospels you should care about and the rest are "illegitimate."
I say anything that makes people learn a little more history is a good thing.
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This is assuming the whole thing is not a forgery, which there are way too many throughout christian history. I feel sorry for my grandmother who is a very devout catholic and how much it means for her to see the Shroud of Turin, and how she tells the story of that pilgrimage as well as others she has done throughout her life. I have to bite my tongue and not say that the shroud of turin is most likely a fake for radiocarbon dating shows it is from the 13th or 14th century which is ironically the same time it was "discovered."
2) Most people do not know anything about Christian history, because of which most people don't know there were hundreds of Jesus stories. most people don't know the modern new testament was organized around 367 AD (also known as Common Era), and it wasn't till 180 AD that people actually started to state that the 4 gospels are the only gospels you should care about and the rest are "illegitimate."
I say anything that makes people learn a little more history is a good thing.
------------------------------------------------
This is assuming the whole thing is not a forgery, which there are way too many throughout christian history. I feel sorry for my grandmother who is a very devout catholic and how much it means for her to see the Shroud of Turin, and how she tells the story of that pilgrimage as well as others she has done throughout her life. I have to bite my tongue and not say that the shroud of turin is most likely a fake for radiocarbon dating shows it is from the 13th or 14th century which is ironically the same time it was "discovered."
Because there is NO mention of them until then, strongly suggesting they were written then. Which, incidentally, makes things like the "Gospels" of Thomas and Judas pseudepigraphs at best, and blasphemous gnostic fantasies at worst.
I know you are not saying the gnostic "gospels" are valid, but those who do utterly baffle me. The first historical reference to gnostic texts is a Church Father CONDEMNING them as wicked lunacy, a century and a half after the Crucifixion. It is the chronological equivalent of todays New York Times stating, "people claiming Abraham Lincoln was a slave owner are idiots knowingly or otherwise serving Americas enemies." Would any sane person take that to PROVE the claim it rejects?
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds...
19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM
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That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM*
19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM
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What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church.
19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM
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Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride"
19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM
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What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God?
20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM
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BRIDE
20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM
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I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM*
20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM
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That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride.
20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM
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It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well.
20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM
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The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment.
20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM
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Two things why it is important
20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM
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Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really?
20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM
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Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy?
20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM
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I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better.
20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM
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It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical.
20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM
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The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation.
21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM
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I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities.
21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM
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There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD:
20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM
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The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD.
20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM
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What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it?
20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM
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The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies
21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM
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I would buy 200 AD, of course.
21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM
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It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point.
21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM
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Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD.
22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM
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I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors.
22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM
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Not even Mark or Luke?
22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM
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Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek
22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM
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True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice.
24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM
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Some people did "lie big".
24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM
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I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter.
24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM
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I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but...
24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM
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I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though.
25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM
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The Gnostic response would be:
25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM
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That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence.
25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM
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The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long.
25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
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What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition?
22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM
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Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago.
22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM
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Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well
22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM
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Let's not get started on Funk
22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM
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don't these people have anything better to do?
20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM
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Clearly not.
22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM
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