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Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel Send a noteboard - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM
They will conclude (if they hear about this) that Jesus was married, that Dan Brown was right, that there is a Templar group keeping His descendants alive, and so on in that manner.

It is that last part that gets me in conjunction with my understanding of Daniels "Seventy Weeks," specifically the part of Daniel 9:26 the KJV renders as "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...." I always understood that (rightly or not) to mean the Messiah would have no heirs, which would mean either 1) the gnostics are full of crap when they talk about Jesus having kids or 2) Jesus was not the Messiah and the whole discussion is pointless. However, I realize (too well) I am not a Hebrew or Aramaic scholar, so my understanding of the passage could be badly in error. Is it?
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... Tom - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1176 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 519 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. Joel - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 798 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" Tom - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 767 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 775 Views
BRIDE Tom - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 752 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM* Rebekah - 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM 373 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride. Joel - 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM 828 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM 764 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM 816 Views
No, the fragment is either Gnostic or a forgery. Tom - 20/09/2012 11:28:53 PM 758 Views
Fair enough; for my money it could easily be both. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:10:57 AM 712 Views
Two things why it is important Roland00 - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 746 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really? Tom - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM 799 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM 742 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better. Tom - 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM 698 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM 777 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation. Tom - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM 711 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM 776 Views
It says nothing about the Septuagint variant reading, though. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:35:51 AM 715 Views
Hmm, you are right; uncharacteristically disappointing. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:16:51 AM 830 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: Joel - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 683 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 698 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? Joel - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 771 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies Tom - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 668 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 749 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 710 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 727 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 664 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? Joel - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 689 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek Tom - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 642 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. Joel - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 703 Views
Some people did "lie big". Tom - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 730 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 798 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... Tom - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 766 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. Joel - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 725 Views
The Gnostic response would be: Tom - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 661 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM 817 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 635 Views
This thread seems an ideal place, but OK. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:34:28 AM 782 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? Larry - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 784 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 717 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well Larry - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 859 Views
Let's not get started on Funk Tom - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 660 Views
So true Larry - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 768 Views
Bentley Layton at Yale is a noted scholar who did translations. Tom - 22/09/2012 10:47:05 PM 698 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? Yunalesca - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 695 Views
Clearly not. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 608 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs Yunalesca - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 767 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. Joel - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 754 Views
I know! Camilla - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 872 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. jh - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 734 Views
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