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The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom Send a noteboard - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
There is plenty of evidence out there, in the canon itself, in other sources, in external evidence, that makes it more than a conspiracy theory. I am trying to get a massive number of things done today and don't have the time, and this thread is not the place, but I can recommend some books if you like.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... Tom - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1468 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 718 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. Joel - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 1088 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" Tom - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 1054 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 1040 Views
BRIDE Tom - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 1016 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM* Rebekah - 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM 494 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride. Joel - 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM 1109 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM 1071 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM 1079 Views
No, the fragment is either Gnostic or a forgery. Tom - 20/09/2012 11:28:53 PM 1029 Views
Fair enough; for my money it could easily be both. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:10:57 AM 967 Views
Two things why it is important Roland00 - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 1009 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really? Tom - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM 1099 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM 1007 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better. Tom - 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM 971 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM 1040 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation. Tom - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM 982 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM 1056 Views
It says nothing about the Septuagint variant reading, though. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:35:51 AM 1005 Views
Hmm, you are right; uncharacteristically disappointing. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:16:51 AM 1084 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: Joel - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 965 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 968 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? Joel - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 1043 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies Tom - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 997 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 1021 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 1011 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 995 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 929 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? Joel - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 1006 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek Tom - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 922 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. Joel - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 973 Views
Some people did "lie big". Tom - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 985 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 1096 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... Tom - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 1032 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. Joel - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 1034 Views
The Gnostic response would be: Tom - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 938 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM 1100 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 940 Views
This thread seems an ideal place, but OK. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:34:28 AM 1057 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? Larry - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 1028 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 995 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well Larry - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 1141 Views
Let's not get started on Funk Tom - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 933 Views
So true Larry - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 1024 Views
Bentley Layton at Yale is a noted scholar who did translations. Tom - 22/09/2012 10:47:05 PM 966 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? Yunalesca - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 1024 Views
Clearly not. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 865 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs Yunalesca - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 1101 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. Joel - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 1011 Views
I know! Camilla - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 1234 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. jh - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 1006 Views
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