This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM
Liberals seem to suffer a strange myopia about their issues and causes. They seem to unable to accept that people do not really think as they do or that other people's values and beliefs are as dearly held as their own. They seem to think that they can change those attitudes with their own decrees and the idea of people standing on their own principles does not seem to occur to them.
In a discussion of same sex marriage on this very MB I contended that it DOES violate non-participants' rights because of the backlash that same-sex marriage laws would create. This case is a perfect example of what I was talking about. A tiny percentage wants something, so they resort to force to get it, and seem to think that compelling people to do something will simply make their desires become reality. They honestly cannot believe that opposition to their view of the issue means as much to their adversaries or that the other side would rather make a sacrifice than accept what the liberal is trying to impose on them. As result, the whole thing is ruined for everyone. For a certain value of ruined, of course. It IS just a high school prom, which, IMO is not worth fighting to attend or getting upset over its cancellation. But the same goes for same-sex marriage. There are people who are THAT opposed to homosexuality, and possessed of sufficient numbers and power, that forcing them to extend to same-sex marriages the same privileges and rights that normal marriages enjoy will cause them to withdraw those rights and privileges rather than extend them to homsexuals!
Of course, some homosexual advocates are just fine with that, despite the fact that in many cases those privileges or traditions are based on the heretofore heterosexist nature of marriage, e.g. extending medical benefits to an employee's spouse. But the fact remains, to accomodate one person's selfish need to have things all her own way, it was ruined for everyone. In the article, the lesbian in question cites her belief that they would not back down: "'A lot of people said that was going to happen, but I said, they had already spent too much money on the prom' to cancel it, she said."
Yet she also claims:
"'It's a small town in Mississippi, and it's run by an older generation with money. Most of them are more conservative and they don't agree with it,' she said."
She evidently somehow assumed that HER dedication to her principles and values was superior to that of her older, more powerful adversaries! She was standing up for her principles but it never occurred to her that other people were every bit as committed to THEIR principles.
This is the blindness I am talking about with liberals - they are perfectly willing to cite the faults and wrongness of the other side's position, yet it never occurrs to them to extrapolate the logical course of action. They are quick to accuse their opponents of bigotry and hatred, or greed or recalcitrance, yet they seem to think that people will take negative emotions every bit as far as positive ones. They accused corporations of being heartless and greedy and caring only about profits, yet somehow they think that when they regulate and tax the corporations, those heartless entities which would do anything for a buck, will meekly accept their punishment and sulkily hoard their dwindling resources, rather than raise the prices of the goods they sell to cover their tax and legal expenses. They are heartless and greedy enough to do anything...except pass along their expenses to the customer! No, a corporation would NEVER stoop THAT low!
Likewise with racism. People who want black people excluded from some activities are motivated by hatred of their skin color, according to liberals, and so it is perfectly all right to punish them for actions that keep black people away from those who hate them. So they force racists to accept blacks among them, and then get surprised when the racists look for loopholes that will allow them to vent their hatred in ways that won't get them punished, or gang up to terrorize blacks in secret for daring to infringe on their previously white territory.
They seem to think that being made to give up one area of their hatred and spite will magically make them behave in all other aspects. Men exclude women from entering certain jobs and fields with them because they are sexist pigs, the women proclaim as they force their way into those spheres of activity... and then are astounded to find that men in those areas behave like sexist pigs!
Liberals simply cannot seem to grasp that the other side is just as willing to spoil things for liberals as liberals are to spoil things for them. A liberal thinks she can force the school and tradition-minded students to accept their vision of the prom being spoiled by a same-sex couple imitating a heterosexual couple, and is flabbergasted when the school is just as willing to spoil it for everyone by cancelling it, as she was to spoil it by pretending to be a boy.
The assertions that liberal causes are "no threat" to people doing things the normal way are shown in this incident to be disingenuous and deceitful at worst, shortsighted and foolish at best.
Additionally, I found the yahoo! headline obnoxiously misleading. "School cancels prom after student's date request" No, actually, they cancelled the prom when the student tried to make a federal case about it, and sued to force it to conform to HER position. If a school cancelled a prom because a student tried to get a court order to let her kick off the prom with a prayer, every major media outlet to cover the story would be taking the "Obnoxious Christians spoil prom for everyone" angle. And so would Aisha.
In a discussion of same sex marriage on this very MB I contended that it DOES violate non-participants' rights because of the backlash that same-sex marriage laws would create. This case is a perfect example of what I was talking about. A tiny percentage wants something, so they resort to force to get it, and seem to think that compelling people to do something will simply make their desires become reality. They honestly cannot believe that opposition to their view of the issue means as much to their adversaries or that the other side would rather make a sacrifice than accept what the liberal is trying to impose on them. As result, the whole thing is ruined for everyone. For a certain value of ruined, of course. It IS just a high school prom, which, IMO is not worth fighting to attend or getting upset over its cancellation. But the same goes for same-sex marriage. There are people who are THAT opposed to homosexuality, and possessed of sufficient numbers and power, that forcing them to extend to same-sex marriages the same privileges and rights that normal marriages enjoy will cause them to withdraw those rights and privileges rather than extend them to homsexuals!
Of course, some homosexual advocates are just fine with that, despite the fact that in many cases those privileges or traditions are based on the heretofore heterosexist nature of marriage, e.g. extending medical benefits to an employee's spouse. But the fact remains, to accomodate one person's selfish need to have things all her own way, it was ruined for everyone. In the article, the lesbian in question cites her belief that they would not back down: "'A lot of people said that was going to happen, but I said, they had already spent too much money on the prom' to cancel it, she said."
Yet she also claims:
"'It's a small town in Mississippi, and it's run by an older generation with money. Most of them are more conservative and they don't agree with it,' she said."
She evidently somehow assumed that HER dedication to her principles and values was superior to that of her older, more powerful adversaries! She was standing up for her principles but it never occurred to her that other people were every bit as committed to THEIR principles.
This is the blindness I am talking about with liberals - they are perfectly willing to cite the faults and wrongness of the other side's position, yet it never occurrs to them to extrapolate the logical course of action. They are quick to accuse their opponents of bigotry and hatred, or greed or recalcitrance, yet they seem to think that people will take negative emotions every bit as far as positive ones. They accused corporations of being heartless and greedy and caring only about profits, yet somehow they think that when they regulate and tax the corporations, those heartless entities which would do anything for a buck, will meekly accept their punishment and sulkily hoard their dwindling resources, rather than raise the prices of the goods they sell to cover their tax and legal expenses. They are heartless and greedy enough to do anything...except pass along their expenses to the customer! No, a corporation would NEVER stoop THAT low!
Likewise with racism. People who want black people excluded from some activities are motivated by hatred of their skin color, according to liberals, and so it is perfectly all right to punish them for actions that keep black people away from those who hate them. So they force racists to accept blacks among them, and then get surprised when the racists look for loopholes that will allow them to vent their hatred in ways that won't get them punished, or gang up to terrorize blacks in secret for daring to infringe on their previously white territory.
They seem to think that being made to give up one area of their hatred and spite will magically make them behave in all other aspects. Men exclude women from entering certain jobs and fields with them because they are sexist pigs, the women proclaim as they force their way into those spheres of activity... and then are astounded to find that men in those areas behave like sexist pigs!
Liberals simply cannot seem to grasp that the other side is just as willing to spoil things for liberals as liberals are to spoil things for them. A liberal thinks she can force the school and tradition-minded students to accept their vision of the prom being spoiled by a same-sex couple imitating a heterosexual couple, and is flabbergasted when the school is just as willing to spoil it for everyone by cancelling it, as she was to spoil it by pretending to be a boy.
The assertions that liberal causes are "no threat" to people doing things the normal way are shown in this incident to be disingenuous and deceitful at worst, shortsighted and foolish at best.
Additionally, I found the yahoo! headline obnoxiously misleading. "School cancels prom after student's date request" No, actually, they cancelled the prom when the student tried to make a federal case about it, and sued to force it to conform to HER position. If a school cancelled a prom because a student tried to get a court order to let her kick off the prom with a prayer, every major media outlet to cover the story would be taking the "Obnoxious Christians spoil prom for everyone" angle. And so would Aisha.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date
- 11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM
1866 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM*
- 12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM
299 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage.
- 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM
946 Views
Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with.
- 12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM
778 Views
Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with.
- 12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM
782 Views
What???
- 12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM
863 Views
Actually...
- 12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM
871 Views
Oh, it is definitely self-defense.
- 12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM
787 Views
That analogy is not apt.
- 12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM
848 Views
Er...
- 12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM
722 Views
I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt.
- 12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM
790 Views
...
- 12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM
718 Views
I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt."
- 12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM
731 Views
That's right, I forgot to add that.
- 12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM
780 Views
It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say?
- 12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM
679 Views
Re: That analogy is not apt.
- 12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM
738 Views
It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong.
- 12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM
758 Views
Re: This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage.
- 12/03/2010 02:31:06 PM
802 Views
Why don't you show me where I said marriage is holy OR made a religious argument, you imbecile?
- 12/03/2010 10:32:42 PM
772 Views
actually, i thought i read that it was because she wanted to wear a tux instead of a dress
- 12/03/2010 02:46:00 AM
800 Views
Kind of a different can of worms then
- 12/03/2010 03:20:35 AM
748 Views
What?! Now that is a can of worms I could see getting in a fight over.
- 14/03/2010 01:24:47 AM
731 Views
Hmm. Apparently it is legal to discriminate upon the basis of gender. Imagine that.
- 14/03/2010 02:45:51 AM
717 Views
It kind of makes sense, given the highly arbitrary and stereotypical nature of gender.
- 14/03/2010 03:35:44 AM
648 Views
Re: What?! Now that is a can of worms I could see getting in a fight over.
- 15/03/2010 02:01:00 AM
766 Views
It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO
- 12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM
806 Views
Maybe.
- 12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM
803 Views
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters"
- 12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM
722 Views
As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here.
- 12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM
710 Views
Just giving the benefit of the doubt...
- 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM
772 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology"
- 12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM
751 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology"
- 12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM
740 Views
That wasn't the impression I was under
- 12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM
628 Views
Re: That wasn't the impression I was under
- 13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM
786 Views
Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux"
- 15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM
671 Views
For the record...
- 12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM
730 Views
Re: For the record...
- 12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM
770 Views
Re: For the record...
- 12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM
791 Views
Re: For the record...
- 12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM
760 Views
No no, I know how you feel. I'm just disinclined to have sympathy for the school.
- 12/03/2010 11:28:35 PM
630 Views
Alternatively, I have little sympathy for the school, I just don't have much for her either
- 12/03/2010 11:56:08 PM
745 Views
- 12/03/2010 11:56:08 PM
745 Views
Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit?
- 12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM
729 Views
Regardless of "rights" invovled, I don't see why she shouldn't be able to go as she pleases.
- 12/03/2010 05:25:31 PM
778 Views
When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend
- 12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM
851 Views
Another thing I think people should remember -
- 12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM
848 Views
One point though
- 12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM
771 Views
Re: One point though
- 12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM
830 Views
My point was that it was a hollow reassurance
- 12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM
664 Views
yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much?
- 13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM
633 Views
Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else
- 13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM
698 Views
It does
- 13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM
683 Views
Re: It does
- 13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM
628 Views
I typically agree with you
- 13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM
735 Views
Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory
- 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM
676 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory
- 15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM
736 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory
- 15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM
615 Views
He wasn't neccessarily advocating it. He was translating what they were doing into something that
- 16/03/2010 01:37:59 AM
697 Views
I'd argue that that kind of hypocrisy is invaluable in today's world, actually.
- 16/03/2010 01:46:16 AM
682 Views
Re: It does
- 13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM
720 Views
Re: It does
- 13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM
635 Views
Re: It does
- 13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM
829 Views
Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM*
- 12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM
470 Views
So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened
- 12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM
620 Views
