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Just giving the benefit of the doubt... Isaac Send a noteboard - 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM
... I think you know, or should know, what my attitude on gays being able to attend the prom is, nevertheless I don't like this assumption everyone displays that this is 'innocent girl vs tyrannical school' - I think they are wrong, I do not think we should just assume they are spitefully taking these actions because they can't do what they'd prefer to and dump queers down a well or something.

You make all kinds of assumptions about the school board being "sympathetic" towards her, and being prepared to allow her to attend with her gf as long as she goes along with the charade and keeps her mouth shut, without any evidence (that I can see) to back those assumptions up.


Well, having actually read the legal brief filed by the ACLU on this matter I have to say, I didn't see any mention of people being expelled previously for being gay. Maybe I missed it, I'm hardly devoting lots of time to intense study of this issue, but it was also absent from any of the half-dozen or so news articles I read on this. Not saying it didn't happen but lacking any proof of this, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. As I've said - repeatedly - I am not of a mind to defend Miss. nor would I be surprised to find their were some raging bigots there even as a super-majority. I try to assume people are not without evidence to the contrary.

If you really think all those things, no wonder you think this girl is a selfish bitch who ruined it for everyone by turning things political (though even under those circumstances I'd have to say her actions would be quite understandable).


I don't think she's a selfish bitch, I don't think she ruined it for everyone. I just think that it's worth considering that maybe both 'sides' on this issue might be pursuing their ideology while forgetting about everyone else getting trampled. I'm not ripping at the school board simply because I consider it redundant, you have an issue with me raising the possibility that this might not be entirely a case of innocent do-gooders vs evil bigots? Personally I have no problem with them banning girl's from tuxedos, I do have a problem with them banning gays. As I said, I consider their motives with all of this rather transparent, I am not on their side... I would respectfully requesting you not say or imply I am. I would also point out that the faculty and the board do not always have the luxury of being able to operate freely regardless of local parental opinion.

But if you don't make those assumptions, and take things like what Macharius said about the past treatment of gay couples into account, then suddenly the picture looks entirely different - wanting to take one's significant other to the prom and dance with them isn't exactly what you'd call bringing the politics in.


Yet I have not seen anything backing Macharius's comments. This is not to say there is not, and yes, it would change my stance, but none of the articles I have read have mentioned ejecting students from previous proms strictly because they were gay. If that is the case, I would say it shows a degree of homophobic malice well in excess of what might be excused for the sake of tradition.

So really, you're going to have to make some stronger arguments about why you find your assumptions justified. After all, the school went out of its way to explicitly state couples had to be one boy and one girl - that doesn't really sound like they were that sympathetic to her.


I do not need stronger arguments, since I am merely assuming that without evidence to the contrary the situation is probably not as lop-sided as it appears to be. Yes, I take note of the boy-girl specific comment in their rules, I did not see a ban on people attending alone and then gathering together, that could easily be a policy meant just to ensure the King and Queen are gender-appropriate, though I rather doubt it. Anyway, it doesn't seem to relate to the tuxedo rule and as long as that is part of the suit we might assume, legitimately I think, that some of the objections have to do with that, though possibly as a strawman for many. I do not think while she insists on that people can totally black and white this.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date - 11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM 1724 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM 277 Views
Not ALL of the US. There were same-sex couples at my prom. *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:26:24 AM 311 Views
Yeah, don't worry, I know it's not like that everywhere. - 12/03/2010 09:15:43 AM 647 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage. - 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM 890 Views
Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM 723 Views
Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM 726 Views
Ummmm.... no. - 12/03/2010 11:02:50 PM 736 Views
i totally agree 100% with what you're saying - 12/03/2010 02:33:55 AM 847 Views
What??? - 12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM 797 Views
Actually... - 12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM 809 Views
Oh, it is definitely self-defense. - 12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM 732 Views
That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM 785 Views
Er... - 12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM 670 Views
I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM 733 Views
... - 12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM 658 Views
I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt." - 12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM 666 Views
That's right, I forgot to add that. - 12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM 723 Views
It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say? - 12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM 616 Views
Again, you're right. - 12/03/2010 03:59:13 PM 599 Views
Yup. - 12/03/2010 04:02:26 PM 704 Views
Not really. Her point is that they should both be illegal. - 12/03/2010 07:01:47 PM 630 Views
Re: That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM 676 Views
And when the school refused to change it's policy... - 12/03/2010 03:25:03 PM 631 Views
Absurd. - 12/03/2010 08:27:19 PM 700 Views
The rules were unjust. - 13/03/2010 05:09:59 AM 735 Views
Wow, talk about proving my point! - 12/03/2010 11:04:34 PM 839 Views
So hang on. - 13/03/2010 05:04:58 AM 716 Views
It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong. - 12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM 706 Views
It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO - 12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM 748 Views
Maybe. - 12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM 748 Views
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM 673 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 01:53:39 PM 695 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 03:04:43 PM 656 Views
As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here. - 12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM 652 Views
Just giving the benefit of the doubt... - 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM 709 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM 682 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM 677 Views
That wasn't the impression I was under - 12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM 576 Views
Re: That wasn't the impression I was under - 13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM 723 Views
Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux" - 15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM 617 Views
Your comments are inconsistent - 15/03/2010 02:09:43 AM 670 Views
I think you're optimistic about what her chances would've been - 12/03/2010 07:13:38 PM 681 Views
For the record... - 12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM 663 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM 699 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM 724 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM 703 Views
Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit? - 12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM 676 Views
Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 01:46:23 PM 670 Views
Re: Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 07:25:41 PM 747 Views
I have issues with both sides, I think - 12/03/2010 02:44:06 PM 637 Views
When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend - 12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM 795 Views
Another thing I think people should remember - - 12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM 792 Views
One point though - 12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM 717 Views
Re: One point though - 12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM 779 Views
My point was that it was a hollow reassurance - 12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM 602 Views
yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much? - 13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM 577 Views
Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else - 13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM 641 Views
It does - 13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM 622 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM 579 Views
I typically agree with you - 13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM 680 Views
Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM 617 Views
yah, but at this point, how much of it is the girl? - 13/03/2010 10:24:57 PM 581 Views
Is she a child or an adult? IIRC she's 18 - 13/03/2010 11:33:39 PM 638 Views
No, it should not - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM 841 Views
Re: No, it should not - 14/03/2010 01:16:33 AM 744 Views
I understood that. You explained it well. *NM* - 14/03/2010 03:28:10 AM 290 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM 681 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM 558 Views
This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 04:27:43 AM 712 Views
Re: This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 05:18:11 AM 954 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM 641 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM 575 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM 771 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:11:11 AM 675 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 03:42:06 AM 717 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:47:47 AM 721 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 04:09:18 AM 689 Views
You make good points. *NM* - 15/03/2010 08:08:37 PM 266 Views
Ah, yes, "the rules." - 15/03/2010 01:47:31 AM 608 Views
Read my replies to Nossy and Ghavrel - 15/03/2010 05:01:29 AM 662 Views
Slippery slope arguments are stupid. - 14/03/2010 12:43:00 AM 560 Views
So is likening everythng back to the Civil Rights Movement - 14/03/2010 04:17:54 AM 720 Views
"Dress codes exists for a reason?" - 15/03/2010 01:43:36 AM 626 Views
They do - 15/03/2010 05:08:17 AM 735 Views
Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM* - 12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM 441 Views
So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened - 12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM 564 Views
Teenaged lesbians - 15/03/2010 06:55:12 AM 677 Views

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