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Re: Egwene, a poor leader? fairfax Send a noteboard - 19/12/2010 08:41:31 PM

I'm not so sure about the appointment part. From what I understand, the Hall has a great deal of influence over this process. Besides, what offices are there to which Egwene can make appointments? The only one I can think of it as ambassadors to other nations; the Hall and Ajahs run the rest.


The power of apppointment can be used either positively or negatively. Egwene can appoint sisters who oppose her to meaningless tasks or meaningless places without input from the Hall. An ally of Romanda could be sent to Arad Doman to distribute food, an ally of Lelaine could be given task of rat removal for Tar Valon, and if you really piss Egwene off you could be sent as a Windfinder instructor. On a positive note Egwene can make appointments that strengthen he position in the Tower. Silvliana is an example. Egwene got a very competetant Keeper and she made a gesture that would get Red support. Egwene can use appointments to weaken her foes and strengthen her supporters.


Which makes her a tyrant, rather than a good leader per say. A good leader unites people with positive reinforcement, a tyrant makes paranoid decisions like demoting enemies. If she goes that path, she's no better than Elaida.


The definition of a tyrant: a soverign or ruler who uses power oppressively or unjustly. Tell me when Egwene used her power oppressively or unjustly. Don't give me the speech she gave to the Aes Sedai when the Tower was united. Giving a speech that might make you fell bad is not oppressive. Sending a Sister that is dispruptive to distrbute food in Arad Doman, a job that should be done is not oppresive. It is what a good leader does. A real life example: When the Neville Chamberlain government fell the two candidates for being Prime Minister of Great Britain were Winston Churchill and Lord Halifax. Winston was selected. Winston didn't want the potentially disruptive Lord Halifax around so he made Lord Halifax Ambassador to the United States. Was the duly elected Winston Churchill a tyrant?

You obviously have never been a manager in a business, a political leader, or lead a diverse group of people. I have never seen in my 30 years in business a good manager exclusively use positive reinforcement. The idea that a good leader unites people only using positive reinforcement is the realm of the young, the inexperienced, and dreamworld college professors who have never had to manage a business/nation in their lives.


can rely on what, ten Aes Sedai? Out of approximately 1000? Elayne and Nynaeve aren't planning on living their lives in the Tower to be able to support her, so while trustworthy I really can't count on them as being reliable when it really comes down to it. As you say, she'll need 20 years for all the novices to become AS before she's able to rely on them. In the interrim, she'll have to fight tooth and nail to get anything done.


I think Egwene can rely on a few more than ten Aes Sedai. The Aes Sedai who really oppose Egwene are few in number. Most of the Aes Sedai will support Egwene because she is the Amyrlin. Romanda, Lelaine, and their handful of supporters will continue to oppose some if not most of Egwene policies, but I don't think they want to overthrow Egwene with Tarmon Gaidan just around the corner.

I guess we will have to disagree on the power of the moral suasion of Nyneave and Elayne. I think most Aes Seadai seeing Egwene being supported by the Queen of Malkier, defeater of Moggy, healer of the stilled, healer of the taint, healer of taint madness, healer of the weather, and the most powerful channeler in the Tower would give supporting Egwene a thought.


IMO, using the respect of others as a justification of leadership only goes so far. If she is a GOOD leader, she will at least be respected (not feared) by her enemies. IMO, a big part of this is humility. Her decisions should be respected because they make sense on their own, not because she is the one putting them forward. So far, I think her decision making hasn't been too bad, everything given, but coming up to Merrilor I see a situation where her ego could affect her rationality.


A good leader is both respected and feared by her enemies. You are right the respect and support of Elayne and Nyneave as justification of leadership only goes so far. That respect and support are just one leg that supports Egwene. You are also right Egwene will rise or fall on her own decisions and actions. So far she has done alright. Why do you think the upcoming situation, in Merrilor, that Egwene's ego will affect her rationality?
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Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 05:59:15 PM 2590 Views
Egwene isn't supposed to be a leader. She's a dictator and a politician. - 16/12/2010 08:21:13 PM 1777 Views
Well! No love lost there - 17/12/2010 01:52:59 PM 1263 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 09:35:44 PM 1544 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 16/12/2010 10:53:20 PM 1484 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 03:07:40 AM 1537 Views
Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are? - 17/12/2010 04:52:34 AM 1348 Views
Re: Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are? - 17/12/2010 05:44:30 AM 1423 Views
That was the case a few books back - 17/12/2010 07:44:32 AM 1426 Views
Re: That was the case a few books back - 17/12/2010 10:14:36 AM 1453 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 02:30:48 PM 1499 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 17/12/2010 08:25:39 PM 1232 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 18/12/2010 05:06:21 AM 1444 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 19/12/2010 08:41:31 PM 1347 Views
Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. *NM* - 20/12/2010 12:14:55 AM 785 Views
Re: Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. - 20/12/2010 01:24:12 AM 1358 Views
And the most painful torments were caused by Egwene - 20/12/2010 09:31:44 AM 1482 Views
That's not quite true. - 20/12/2010 06:47:33 PM 1277 Views
That's not quite accurate. - 21/12/2010 01:22:26 AM 1529 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 20/12/2010 12:57:42 AM 1237 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 20/12/2010 02:02:05 AM 1414 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader? - 22/12/2010 07:08:37 AM 1378 Views
She has the same power base as any Amyrlin - the Aes Sedai, the artisans, Guards & citizens of TV - 17/12/2010 05:51:20 PM 1441 Views
Ta'veren vs. Mary Sue - 17/12/2010 07:33:28 PM 1920 Views
I see them as being the same thing. - 17/12/2010 08:11:30 PM 1475 Views
I don't think the case can be made for Rand having it easy - 17/12/2010 11:04:58 PM 1330 Views
I would say that in the grand scheme of things, Rand's had good to balance out the bad. - 20/12/2010 06:27:35 PM 1320 Views
Funniest statement I've ever seen on here. - 18/12/2010 05:22:28 AM 1430 Views
Agree with your comments. - 20/12/2010 03:12:32 PM 1787 Views
You need to post more about Egwene - 17/12/2010 08:16:19 PM 1396 Views
Nah. Just a hyopcrite. *NM* - 17/12/2010 09:28:28 PM 751 Views
Yes, but for completely different reasons... - 18/12/2010 12:35:23 AM 1453 Views
Yes, communication is key. - 18/12/2010 05:32:01 AM 1282 Views
You think Egwene has more power than Tuon? - 18/12/2010 12:27:01 PM 1272 Views
Re: You think Egwene has more power than Tuon? - 18/12/2010 02:41:25 PM 1201 Views
Definitely... - 18/12/2010 03:24:12 PM 1298 Views
Where does the 200000 number come from? *NM* - 18/12/2010 03:36:22 PM 688 Views
That's not right... - 19/12/2010 12:56:25 AM 1280 Views
Re: That's not right... - 19/12/2010 11:38:54 PM 1408 Views
What's said above. Plus - 19/12/2010 11:00:42 AM 1257 Views
More explanations... - 20/12/2010 02:51:25 AM 1303 Views
Re: More explanations... - 20/12/2010 09:40:46 AM 1373 Views
Aiel, Cairhien and Andor are NOT under Egwenes power. - 20/12/2010 02:46:44 PM 1392 Views
Re: More explanations... - 20/12/2010 03:58:58 PM 1483 Views
An Amyrlin doesn't really have a power base. - 18/12/2010 05:43:12 AM 1379 Views
I think comparing Egwene to McCain is asking for trouble on several fronts. - 20/12/2010 12:33:04 AM 1270 Views
She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 02:41:32 AM 1292 Views
RJ is more powerful. - 20/12/2010 03:25:49 AM 1483 Views
I'd advise a re-read. Of ToM, and maybe the whole series... - 20/12/2010 03:58:03 AM 1333 Views
Re: I'd advise a re-read. Of ToM, and maybe the whole series... - 21/12/2010 09:08:20 PM 1342 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 09:46:22 AM 1368 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 09:55:03 AM 1272 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 10:27:59 AM 1333 Views
One example of this... - 20/12/2010 11:15:03 AM 1346 Views
Re: One example of this... - 20/12/2010 11:22:10 AM 1236 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon... - 20/12/2010 11:08:35 AM 1314 Views
That's not quite true. - 20/12/2010 10:35:45 PM 1319 Views

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