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That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count Send a noteboard - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM
The way you said it was perfect.

RJ's writing violates some of the ideas that critics have of what makes a proper book, but my personal opinion is that many of those supposed "faults" are important factors in creating a fantasy world that feels more real and complete to me than anything else I've ever read.

Other fantasy worlds in books I've read are often interesting, but they feel small and undeveloped, and I can't help but feel like their entires worlds only have a population of about 200 people. With the Wheel of Time, I get the idea of a real world, with various populated nations with fully developed cultures that I can relate to. In my mind, Robert Jordan will is superior to all other fantasy writers I've read in that regard. Other writers are superior to RJ in other ways, but I will never consider RJ to be a bad writer because of that--though he is lacking is some areas.
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3655 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. darius_sedai - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 2107 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1749 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1580 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1648 Views
Oh, it really depends. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1446 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 1114 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. RabidWombat - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 2105 Views
Thank you. Nargs - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1784 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM* Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM 1220 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM 1631 Views
Well Said! Evil_Monkey - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1917 Views
That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM 1645 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 2158 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1883 Views
Not particularly. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 2062 Views
Agreed. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1599 Views
Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM 1790 Views
That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM 1638 Views
Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM 1645 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... Velveti - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1697 Views
Amen *NM* Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 999 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? DomA - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2762 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1837 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol Onarishma - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1709 Views
I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM 2031 Views
That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks newyorkersedai - 23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM 1752 Views
Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM 1687 Views
adam roberts reviews uglycat - 23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM 1908 Views
And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM 1094 Views
Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM 1581 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 2173 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1986 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 1019 Views
There are nine, actually... Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1880 Views
Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM 1083 Views
Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM* Tom - 23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM 1123 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. Stephen - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1516 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1671 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Stephen - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1629 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1753 Views
So wait, style is good? Stephen - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1919 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1502 Views
I'm not trolling Stephen - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1576 Views
That depends... DomA - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1809 Views
I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria. Tom - 23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM 1700 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1650 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion DomA - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1607 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1763 Views
Not for quality of writing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1619 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 1124 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1677 Views
If you don't mind me asking... Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1699 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... DomA - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1544 Views
I still don't get it. Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1581 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1634 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1604 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1594 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1657 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1614 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 1002 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1506 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1402 Views
It is not a serious question. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1772 Views
How so? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1767 Views
I have every right to use that tone. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1582 Views
Is that so? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1989 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1623 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1652 Views
You're conflating two things. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1889 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1715 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* Nargs - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 1023 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1522 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 957 Views
Glad to hear that. Tom - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1616 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 970 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1801 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Tom - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1828 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM 2074 Views
I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM 1573 Views
Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic" HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM 1521 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Lo'oris - 26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM 1477 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 971 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 995 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 1110 Views
Re: ... Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1567 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1744 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1546 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1955 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1545 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1689 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1623 Views
Ok... Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1619 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. Ghavrel - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1735 Views
*NM* Tom - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 1015 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1447 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? VTHokie - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1726 Views
Among living writers? Tom - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1798 Views
No Rushdie? fionwe1987 - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1518 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. Tom - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1503 Views
My list would be similar... DomA - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1895 Views
That was a very good list. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1918 Views
Re: That was a very good list. DomA - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1843 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. Tom - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1729 Views
Oh, and another question Tom - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1388 Views
Re: Oh, and another question DomA - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1752 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... Tom - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1457 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... DomA - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1842 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1871 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Tom - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1752 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Iain83 - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1840 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1772 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1734 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: Nargs - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1856 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM 1699 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* Marshall - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 1126 Views
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