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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
My statement was that aesthetic value is important. You shouldn't take "paint pretty pictures" literally - that should have been obvious. The beginning phrase of Lolita is obviously written well. If you think it isn't, then say it isn't and explain why. If you think it is, there's no need to further explain things.


You made the assertion, you need to support it. I do believe it is well written, but as you have claimed yourself, 'well written' comprises multiple aspects. You claimed that these passages had aesthetic value because they paint beautiful images. I do not understand how this - this specific quality to this specific passage - is so, hence my question. If you meant something else, please rephrase it. If you did mean it as such, can you explain why you believe it is so?

If you don't understand what I'm talking about generally, then you really need to read a book that is well written from cover to cover to understand. Just because you don't like my brief selection doesn't mean that there aren't examples of well-written books (from an aesthetic perspective) out there.

So please, quit with the faux-naive Socratic questioning.


My question was an honest question, and the fact that you are incapable of answering it says more about you than it does about me. Frankly, this conversation bores me. If you remain unable or unwilling to answer the simple question I have asked, do not expect further replies from me.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3526 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. darius_sedai - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1954 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1623 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1447 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1529 Views
Oh, it really depends. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1312 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 985 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. RabidWombat - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1942 Views
Thank you. Nargs - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1639 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM* Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM 1098 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM 1436 Views
Well Said! Evil_Monkey - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1695 Views
That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM 1491 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 2012 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1721 Views
Not particularly. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1857 Views
Agreed. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1474 Views
Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM 1647 Views
That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM 1512 Views
Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM 1526 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... Velveti - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1560 Views
Amen *NM* Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 918 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? DomA - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2556 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1635 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol Onarishma - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1581 Views
I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM 1844 Views
That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks newyorkersedai - 23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM 1615 Views
Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM 1557 Views
adam roberts reviews uglycat - 23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM 1704 Views
And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM 958 Views
Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM 1463 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1918 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1792 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 889 Views
There are nine, actually... Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1743 Views
Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM 964 Views
Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM* Tom - 23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM 972 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. Stephen - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1386 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1548 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Stephen - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1495 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1506 Views
So wait, style is good? Stephen - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1780 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1377 Views
I'm not trolling Stephen - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1402 Views
That depends... DomA - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1685 Views
I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria. Tom - 23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM 1555 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1516 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion DomA - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1487 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1616 Views
Not for quality of writing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1486 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 970 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1550 Views
If you don't mind me asking... Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1470 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... DomA - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1419 Views
I still don't get it. Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1409 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1449 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1410 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1472 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1535 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1479 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 926 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1380 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1278 Views
It is not a serious question. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1545 Views
How so? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1587 Views
I have every right to use that tone. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1452 Views
Is that so? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1700 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1490 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1523 Views
You're conflating two things. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1650 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1510 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* Nargs - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 901 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1341 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 856 Views
Glad to hear that. Tom - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1419 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 887 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1548 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Tom - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1639 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM 1961 Views
I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM 1373 Views
Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic" HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM 1364 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Lo'oris - 26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM 1358 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 817 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 841 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 965 Views
Re: ... Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1449 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1541 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1413 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1706 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1385 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1552 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1423 Views
Ok... Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1419 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. Ghavrel - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1529 Views
*NM* Tom - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 876 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1320 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? VTHokie - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1534 Views
Among living writers? Tom - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1589 Views
No Rushdie? fionwe1987 - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1383 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. Tom - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1378 Views
My list would be similar... DomA - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1696 Views
That was a very good list. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1627 Views
Re: That was a very good list. DomA - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1598 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. Tom - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1484 Views
Oh, and another question Tom - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1258 Views
Re: Oh, and another question DomA - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1542 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... Tom - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1312 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... DomA - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1613 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1709 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Tom - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1536 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Iain83 - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1664 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1604 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1601 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: Nargs - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1722 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM 1514 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* Marshall - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 986 Views
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