Active Users:855 Time:16/06/2026 12:43:56 PM
Not for quality of writing. Tom Send a noteboard - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM
"Do you like it?" is about entertainment value and the strength of the story, not the strength of the actual execution. When people say that Jordan is "not a good writer" they usually mean exactly that - he doesn't write well. His story is fun and entertaining, but the actual mechanical execution, from any perspective (style, aesthetic value, word flow, strength of descriptions) is not stellar.

Since, as you noted, people differ in their tastes, a writer who can write well will almost always have supporters, so I don't think your point is really relevant (i.e., that a likable author can be good or bad, but an unlikable one can never be good). You yourself mentioned that likability is a subjective measure, so I can agree with you that the statement you made is true from a subjective perspective, but it doesn't affect the question of whether or not Jordan is a good writer.

I don't think Jordan cared about being a "good writer", though. He had mentioned over and over that the story was the most important point for him. The reason I feel it necessary to even comment in a post like this is because I think it's worthwhile combating two equally absurd viewpoints:

1. Irrational fans. These people think that, because they like the Wheel of Time, this means Jordan is the Charles Dickens, Fyodor Dostoevsky and Gustave Flaubert of the 1990s and 2000s. They try to elevate bad prose to the level of literature worthy of literary analysis and discussion.

2. Cretins. These people intentionally bash good literature because they themselves are incapable of appreciating it, and attempt to say that Jordan is better than traditional literature (in some dim way recognizing that Jordan is somehow "different" from literature as an art form) because they understand or appreciate Jordan but not serious literature.

I realize that neither group is going to be persuaded, the first because they are intentionally blind to criticism and the second because they are ignorant and uncultured, but there are other people who aren't in those categories who will still be swayed by arguments, and it's worth a bit of time to make sure the argument is made.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
Reply to message
Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3552 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1980 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1650 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1482 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1555 Views
Oh, it really depends. - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1347 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 1023 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1970 Views
Thank you. - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1673 Views
Well Said! - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1749 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 2052 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1758 Views
Not particularly. - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1909 Views
Agreed. - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1510 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1592 Views
Amen *NM* - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 939 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2606 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1692 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1620 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1985 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1834 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 926 Views
There are nine, actually... - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1779 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1424 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1578 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1525 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1567 Views
So wait, style is good? - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1809 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1408 Views
I'm not trolling - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1438 Views
That depends... - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1709 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1544 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1516 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1649 Views
Not for quality of writing. - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1519 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 1003 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1584 Views
If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1526 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1453 Views
I still don't get it. - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1453 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1495 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1458 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1503 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1570 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1516 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 948 Views
... - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1414 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1306 Views
It is not a serious question. - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1601 Views
How so? - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1628 Views
I have every right to use that tone. - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1482 Views
Is that so? - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1768 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1523 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1555 Views
You're conflating two things. - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1707 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1559 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 935 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1380 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 876 Views
Glad to hear that. - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1457 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 909 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1613 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1697 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 851 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 875 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 999 Views
Re: ... - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1476 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1588 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1439 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1772 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1414 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1582 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1465 Views
Ok... - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1465 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1586 Views
*NM* - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 925 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1355 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1579 Views
Among living writers? - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1648 Views
No Rushdie? - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1418 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1403 Views
My list would be similar... - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1741 Views
That was a very good list. - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1676 Views
Re: That was a very good list. - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1644 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1542 Views
Oh, and another question - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1287 Views
Re: Oh, and another question - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1593 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1362 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1662 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1739 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1574 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1712 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1650 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1625 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1765 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 1017 Views

Reply to Message