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he's saying that. Deadsy Send a noteboard - 26/09/2009 10:12:16 PM

Elaida chose to let Alviarin do those things. She did that to save her ass from the punishment the Hall would mete out for her idiotic plans.


Not sure that's really Elaida's free-will making those decisions. In fact, she realizes they are blunders from the start. Not just the letter, but also publicly revealing the heads of the Ajahs.



he knows elaida agreed to obey. but he's saying that was her choice. elaida greed to obey alviarin to avoid being punished by the hall.
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Your thoughts about TGS - chapter 2 *spoilers* Sidious - 24/09/2009 03:17:07 PM 8310 Views
Mind-numbingly boring... Shannow - 24/09/2009 04:22:52 PM 2799 Views
I thought it was excellent *NM* Sidious - 24/09/2009 04:32:05 PM 1519 Views
Only for someone who can't read between the lines. Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 07:40:18 PM 2633 Views
I adored it. *NM* Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:37:38 PM 1382 Views
Agreed, but only because of the incredibly slow audio reading. FORTY-FIVE minutes for ONE chapter!!! *NM* Cannoli - 25/09/2009 06:08:27 AM 1419 Views
EVERY Chapter in the entire series is read that way. Yvves - 25/09/2009 01:40:07 PM 2288 Views
Yup, they're a lot of fun to listen to. BlackAdder - 26/09/2009 08:26:52 PM 2208 Views
Agreed. As for the speed issue... RandAllThor - 28/09/2009 02:11:13 PM 2131 Views
Cannoli’s journal of listening to “The Nature of Pain.” Cannoli - 28/09/2009 01:03:35 PM 2765 Views
Chapter summary Sidious - 24/09/2009 04:31:01 PM 2869 Views
sounds like its RJs work from the dialogue *NM* Iceman - 24/09/2009 04:33:57 PM 1304 Views
I agree - I'm certain it was RJ *NM* Sidious - 24/09/2009 04:36:12 PM 1557 Views
Agreed. It was RJ through and through. *NM* Shannow - 24/09/2009 04:36:13 PM 1357 Views
+1 Seriana Sedai - 25/09/2009 06:03:44 AM 2308 Views
I should disagree StinkerSkunk - 26/09/2009 10:34:58 PM 2440 Views
Jordan left tons of background info in notes Rurouni_Kenshin - 27/09/2009 07:36:11 PM 2353 Views
Re: Jordan left tons of background info in notes StinkerSkunk - 27/09/2009 08:10:06 PM 2414 Views
Her entry in Encyclopaedia wot makes no mention of her being amyrlin *NM* NaClH2O - 28/09/2009 01:17:49 AM 1365 Views
Jordan could have easily added that to her backstory after LOC. It's been at least ten years. Rurouni_Kenshin - 28/09/2009 09:46:34 PM 2439 Views
Re: Jordan could have easily added that to her backstory after LOC. It's been at least ten years. StinkerSkunk - 28/09/2009 10:04:02 PM 2196 Views
Re: Chapter summary RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 06:50:36 PM 2438 Views
Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower? Shannow - 24/09/2009 04:44:28 PM 2463 Views
Well, she's replaced everything else in her life with the Tower. Darth_Katie - 24/09/2009 04:47:05 PM 2464 Views
I always thought it was the small town thing Sidious - 24/09/2009 04:50:19 PM 2438 Views
Could it be that Fain could have contaminated her in tFOH? AliasRY - 24/09/2009 04:51:56 PM 2369 Views
Can Fain do that? Sidious - 24/09/2009 04:53:57 PM 2324 Views
No he can't (couldn't) DomA - 24/09/2009 05:02:21 PM 2523 Views
So you're saying that an antagonist is being portrayed as idiotic in this series? No way! Shannow - 24/09/2009 04:58:15 PM 2438 Views
I this case, I'm quite forgiving Sidious - 24/09/2009 05:36:59 PM 2341 Views
What has Gawyn done that demonstrates stupidity? Fanatic-Templar - 28/09/2009 05:21:39 AM 2319 Views
Ambitious people are like that redhand - 24/09/2009 05:08:27 PM 2400 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 06:01:46 PM 2386 Views
I don't think its necessarily for the tower itself FredWeasley - 24/09/2009 08:30:15 PM 2324 Views
This made my morning happy. Darth_Katie - 24/09/2009 04:45:08 PM 2371 Views
I think it's different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 05:51:11 PM 2497 Views
True. Darth_Katie - 24/09/2009 07:21:36 PM 2472 Views
Re: True. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 07:30:06 PM 2317 Views
I also think Egwene might free them from it once she becomes recognized Amyrlin *NM* Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:36:55 PM 1419 Views
Re: I think it's different. BlackAdder - 25/09/2009 03:24:22 AM 2381 Views
There's still a difference... fionwe1987 - 25/09/2009 04:28:55 AM 2239 Views
Re: There's still a difference... BlackAdder - 26/09/2009 12:30:28 PM 2256 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 26/09/2009 03:44:31 PM 2254 Views
Re: But... Amyrlin Seat - 26/09/2009 04:08:35 PM 2244 Views
She could have not bungled up... fionwe1987 - 26/09/2009 05:17:02 PM 2077 Views
In PoD, it is revealed that Alviarin makes Elaida swear obedience to her. BlackAdder - 26/09/2009 07:48:01 PM 2471 Views
he's saying that. Deadsy - 26/09/2009 10:12:16 PM 2149 Views
She also deposes Alviarin... fionwe1987 - 26/09/2009 10:47:07 PM 2215 Views
Egwene matured a bit, BUT redhand - 24/09/2009 04:51:53 PM 2319 Views
Ever had rancid oil? Kiera - 01/10/2009 08:42:59 PM 3008 Views
Is Alviarin finished? Sidious - 24/09/2009 04:52:31 PM 2398 Views
Two possibilities that come to mind RandAllThor - 24/09/2009 05:11:41 PM 2393 Views
Or Sidious - 24/09/2009 05:45:36 PM 2493 Views
Best idea ^ *NM* Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:27:15 PM 1687 Views
Egwene knows about the letter, and soon the BA hunters will too. Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 07:46:34 PM 2340 Views
She's got to be 'raised' to the shawl first, to take the 4 oaths. AgentOrange - 24/09/2009 10:33:42 PM 2318 Views
No they don't Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 11:03:09 PM 2194 Views
Oh, I thought you meant Elaida's new obedience oath *NM* AgentOrange - 25/09/2009 09:15:48 AM 1329 Views
Her part will probably be... Etzel - 24/09/2009 06:06:08 PM 2379 Views
I think her mission has changed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 06:08:11 PM 2152 Views
Re: Is Alviarin finished? Gerbeaud - 24/09/2009 09:08:29 PM 2015 Views
Good 1st chapter of Egwene's plotline! Etzel - 24/09/2009 05:15:32 PM 2376 Views
Painful to listen to Bulgakov - 24/09/2009 05:33:22 PM 2390 Views
Not finished it yet MikeyMikeyMikey - 24/09/2009 05:42:18 PM 2464 Views
WHITE! sue - 24/09/2009 06:20:43 PM 2342 Views
Not White! (spoilers) And Seanchan attack idea. The Angry Druid - 28/09/2009 02:26:06 AM 2443 Views
Yes, Mesaana's plain white dress seems somewhat peculiar Etzel - 24/09/2009 06:43:45 PM 2457 Views
But what if she has no choice but to stay? MikeyMikeyMikey - 24/09/2009 08:02:01 PM 2119 Views
Are you kidding? Moridin would kill her AgentOrange - 24/09/2009 10:50:34 PM 2199 Views
She doesn't.. Etzel - 25/09/2009 06:36:22 AM 2176 Views
I doubt it - I'm of the opinion that Moridin may be next on SH's "personal attentions" list RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/09/2009 05:16:38 PM 2334 Views
If this is true, it could be a ploy BlackAdder - 25/09/2009 03:06:45 AM 2322 Views
Plus, it avoids getting tangled in the Black Ajah hunt BlackAdder - 25/09/2009 03:11:38 AM 2096 Views
I struggle to think of Mesaana as a novice Sidious - 25/09/2009 05:16:57 AM 2355 Views
I disagree Marshall - 25/09/2009 11:08:34 AM 2425 Views
nice idea *NM* Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:29:56 PM 1286 Views
I liked it *Spoilers* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 05:49:41 PM 2295 Views
I think... Etzel - 24/09/2009 07:01:42 PM 2478 Views
Re: I think... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/09/2009 07:33:34 PM 2070 Views
Re: I think... Sidious - 24/09/2009 08:00:09 PM 2446 Views
Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well? Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 08:07:38 PM 2208 Views
Re: Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well? Sidious - 25/09/2009 03:43:22 PM 2306 Views
Chosen have been mindtrapped before Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 04:32:18 PM 1823 Views
Re: I think... Ryan - 25/09/2009 07:25:34 PM 2249 Views
Surely worse happened in the War of Power though before the seals were laid Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 07:58:54 PM 2278 Views
I was totally caught off guard! entyti - 24/09/2009 05:50:39 PM 2296 Views
I all excited! sue - 24/09/2009 06:26:23 PM 2223 Views
Yay Deadsy - 24/09/2009 07:00:41 PM 2484 Views
Egwene is arrogant as ever...thinking Rand can't possibly get along without guidance *NM* Lanfear - 24/09/2009 08:25:24 PM 1511 Views
is she wrong? Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:34:44 PM 2361 Views
The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. Two afterthouts as edits Lanfear - 24/09/2009 08:43:38 PM 2511 Views
Re: The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:46:09 PM 2324 Views
I'm sure Moridin knows how to too Isaac - 27/09/2009 03:59:49 PM 2192 Views
Re: is she wrong? BlackAdder - 25/09/2009 03:38:09 AM 2415 Views
Re: is she wrong? fionwe1987 - 25/09/2009 04:30:28 AM 2210 Views
You're totally wrong Lanfear - 25/09/2009 02:23:27 PM 2372 Views
Re: You're totally wrong Sidious - 25/09/2009 03:32:22 PM 2285 Views
but she was absolutely essential in the successful completion NaClH2O - 29/09/2009 02:55:13 PM 2572 Views
I like Egwene but I didn't like her statement Sidious - 25/09/2009 05:03:33 AM 2503 Views
I agree, and one more reason why I agree Lanfear - 25/09/2009 02:27:44 PM 2339 Views
I disagree in some ways Sidious - 25/09/2009 03:23:35 PM 2112 Views
I agree, and that is Rand's problem in the first place. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/09/2009 07:27:22 PM 2277 Views
Rand should invoke the 'Law of War' against the DO ajfurst - 25/09/2009 06:19:56 AM 2262 Views
She wants part of the glory. *NM* Bulgakov - 25/09/2009 06:31:47 AM 1256 Views
What will happen first: black ajah hunt ends or Seanchan attack the WT? Lanfear - 24/09/2009 08:38:43 PM 2441 Views
I can never decide what I think will happen Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:44:03 PM 2362 Views
Re: I can never decide what I think will happen randfandom - 24/09/2009 09:25:18 PM 2263 Views
I disagree, the Rebels are better protected Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 09:36:19 PM 2334 Views
I agree with you. Rebels are harder to take (rebels have Asha'man too) *NM* Lanfear - 24/09/2009 09:59:10 PM 1325 Views
So do the Tower Reds, only the Seanchan don't know that yet... Crackbrained Asha'man - 25/09/2009 04:46:17 AM 2161 Views
Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property" NaClH2O - 29/09/2009 03:09:28 PM 2165 Views
Re: Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property" StinkerSkunk - 29/09/2009 03:23:45 PM 2284 Views
OK, I didn't remember the details correctly NaClH2O - 29/09/2009 03:38:16 PM 2266 Views
Re: OK, I didn't remember the details correctly StinkerSkunk - 29/09/2009 04:11:22 PM 2349 Views
Harnan's tattoo is of a hawk, not a raven NaClH2O - 29/09/2009 04:37:27 PM 2369 Views
Oops. Then no other interpretations. StinkerSkunk - 29/09/2009 04:51:07 PM 2259 Views
Potential for conflicting prophecies? BlackAdder - 26/09/2009 08:49:04 PM 2089 Views
no.. urizen - 26/09/2009 09:12:52 PM 2215 Views
The title of book 13... Etzel - 24/09/2009 09:19:17 PM 2196 Views
Swing and a miss. The Dude - 24/09/2009 10:33:46 PM 2390 Views
As said Etzel - 25/09/2009 06:37:46 AM 2123 Views
Or maybe the fortress in the blight? Isaac - 25/09/2009 12:51:05 PM 2206 Views
Yes, those Towers... Etzel - 25/09/2009 03:10:40 PM 2277 Views
Seems unlikely to me. RandAllThor - 25/09/2009 01:44:27 PM 2311 Views
Yeah, that's possible. Etzel - 25/09/2009 03:11:33 PM 2254 Views
Egwene's surprising decision... Rand al'Thor - 25/09/2009 08:38:51 PM 2146 Views
I think it's an exaggeration Deadsy - 25/09/2009 09:01:22 PM 2289 Views
Re: Egwene's surprising decision... randfandom - 26/09/2009 12:58:51 AM 2289 Views
The Seanchan attack will happen first AgentOrange - 24/09/2009 10:47:50 PM 2140 Views
I think Egwene is building up an immunity to forkroot. *NM* Lanfear - 25/09/2009 02:03:58 AM 1340 Views
I'm kinda hoping Mesaana hands them all in a basket to Moridin. BlackAdder - 25/09/2009 02:51:55 AM 2069 Views
Egwene's respect reminds me of Niall's comment to Morgase ajfurst - 25/09/2009 03:39:19 AM 2175 Views
Both at once, I don't think it will be a neat A then B, or B then A ajfurst - 25/09/2009 03:53:30 AM 2228 Views
How would they possibly hear of Turan in Arad Doman? Lanfear - 25/09/2009 02:34:34 PM 2243 Views
Raken - they are used as messengers ajfurst - 25/09/2009 02:43:29 PM 2227 Views
Egwene... surprised me. It was great. fionwe1987 - 24/09/2009 08:49:36 PM 2136 Views
I didn't catch any hints as to Mesaana's identity. Were there any? Lanfear - 24/09/2009 08:51:23 PM 2175 Views
Katerine is Black Ajah Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2009 10:48:14 PM 2230 Views
Also... this makes me miss RJ even more Deadsy - 24/09/2009 08:52:52 PM 2515 Views
I experienced just the opposite Bulgakov - 25/09/2009 06:40:53 AM 2343 Views
Totally disagree Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 06:58:36 AM 2154 Views
This was a truely beautiful chapter *NM* AgentOrange - 24/09/2009 10:22:48 PM 1303 Views
Really? CupofDice - 24/09/2009 11:37:59 PM 2181 Views
Daaayyum - when did Elaida become such a baller/shot caller? BlackAdder - 24/09/2009 11:23:41 PM 2301 Views
I can't wait to actually read the chapter-- I thought it was very well written *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 25/09/2009 12:18:48 AM 1288 Views
In regards to Alviarin. Heiko - 25/09/2009 01:32:09 AM 2329 Views
Could Elaida pass a 4th Oath? Sidious - 25/09/2009 05:13:08 AM 2257 Views
I think it would serve as motivation for those who say "You don't have to like the Amrylin" to turn. Seriana Sedai - 25/09/2009 06:08:19 AM 2250 Views
The Black Ajah would never stand for it, even if the other sisters would Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 06:38:19 AM 2417 Views
And therein lies Elaida's genius... BlackAdder - 25/09/2009 07:08:48 PM 2396 Views
Re: The Black Ajah would never stand for it, even if the other sisters would Ryan - 26/09/2009 04:45:32 AM 2191 Views
Fain as the source of much of the Tower's woes Matrimony Cauthon - 25/09/2009 05:30:49 AM 2214 Views
No one else thinks Fain has had any influence on Elaida's erratic behavior? *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 25/09/2009 05:32:05 PM 1342 Views
I agree. Fain is affecting her, for certain. NT *NM* The Angry Druid - 28/09/2009 02:30:45 AM 1383 Views
What about Mesaana? Darth_Katie - 25/09/2009 06:03:41 PM 2111 Views
Definitely Mesana-- but I was wondering if the Shadar Logoth taint leaked onto Elaida a little Matrimony Cauthon - 25/09/2009 07:43:24 PM 2353 Views
Mat vs Egwene Sidious - 25/09/2009 03:34:35 PM 2269 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 03:38:39 PM 2233 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene Sidious - 25/09/2009 03:40:32 PM 2251 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene Gerbeaud - 25/09/2009 04:16:16 PM 2250 Views
We already saw Mat confront Egwene in Salidar. What more Lanfear - 25/09/2009 04:18:21 PM 2391 Views
Re: We already saw Mat confront Egwene in Salidar. What more Gerbeaud - 25/09/2009 04:37:04 PM 2269 Views
That's not his argument though Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 04:34:35 PM 2106 Views
Ah okay. Sidious - 25/09/2009 04:36:00 PM 2217 Views
She seemed okay with it in KoD Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 04:38:53 PM 2328 Views
I think... Etzel - 25/09/2009 03:47:26 PM 2330 Views
Nice ideas! *NM* Sidious - 25/09/2009 03:51:01 PM 1995 Views
That is really good idea Matrimony Cauthon - 25/09/2009 08:12:34 PM 2441 Views
Though... Etzel - 26/09/2009 01:32:18 PM 2290 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene Seriana Sedai - 25/09/2009 06:15:56 PM 2095 Views
egwene and elaida's 4th oath aldapelan - 25/09/2009 03:51:36 PM 2242 Views
Egwene's Hypocrisy here is astounding: The Angry Druid - 29/09/2009 03:39:25 AM 2244 Views
Egwene and Mesaana Darth_Katie - 25/09/2009 06:07:37 PM 2293 Views
Come now...even though Mesaana is whimpy for a Forsaken, she would wipe the floor with Egwene... Shannow - 25/09/2009 06:10:13 PM 2294 Views
Alright, I *may* have overlooked that significant point. Darth_Katie - 25/09/2009 06:21:09 PM 2128 Views
Agreed Sidious - 26/09/2009 06:36:01 AM 2201 Views
Depends on where the battle takes place. TAR = Egwene win. The Angry Druid - 02/10/2009 06:10:07 PM 2282 Views
Egwene would need to lead a circle or use an angreal to beat her. *NM* Rurouni_Kenshin - 25/09/2009 06:31:42 PM 1309 Views
Unless it was based on willpower as in a conflict within Tel'Aran'Rhiod RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/09/2009 07:19:50 PM 2215 Views
Humph. Great Lord of Chaos - 26/09/2009 03:27:09 AM 2154 Views
She was overconfident Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/09/2009 03:24:51 PM 2242 Views
A lie by Elaida? Etzel - 27/09/2009 02:31:36 PM 2463 Views
Re: A lie by Elaida? StinkerSkunk - 27/09/2009 02:50:49 PM 2196 Views
Re: A lie by Elaida? Amyrlin Seat - 27/09/2009 03:01:06 PM 2194 Views
I don't think it covers things like that Isaac - 27/09/2009 04:10:05 PM 2183 Views
She believes what she said *NM* Sidious - 28/09/2009 04:51:52 AM 1281 Views
Remember, perspective. Great Lord of Chaos - 29/09/2009 12:14:59 AM 2095 Views
It might well be true BlackAdder - 29/09/2009 12:38:20 AM 2238 Views
Well... that elicited quite a reaction. Fanatic-Templar - 28/09/2009 06:25:52 AM 2029 Views
I had many of those same thoughts. Narg - 28/09/2009 05:27:43 PM 2267 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts. Watcher - 28/09/2009 06:42:56 PM 2038 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts. Knightscape - 28/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 2182 Views
She'll do everything to re-unite the Tower - except anything that could actually re-unite it ajfurst - 29/09/2009 02:26:10 AM 2269 Views
I've just learned to skip any female POV's written by RJ Lord o' Salv - 29/09/2009 04:38:45 AM 2219 Views
Hmmm.... fionwe1987 - 29/09/2009 05:30:44 AM 2237 Views
Re: Hmmm.... Fanatic-Templar - 29/09/2009 06:26:17 AM 2238 Views
Ridiculous Rurouni_Kenshin - 30/09/2009 12:34:07 AM 2095 Views
Very. Fanatic-Templar - 30/09/2009 02:40:07 AM 2220 Views
Re: Hmmm.... fionwe1987 - 30/09/2009 03:00:01 AM 2232 Views
Re: Hmmm.... Fanatic-Templar - 30/09/2009 04:32:14 AM 2243 Views
Re: Hmmm.... fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 03:23:21 AM 2202 Views
Re: Hmmm.... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 04:51:14 AM 2194 Views
Re: Hmmm.... RandAllThor - 03/10/2009 01:57:24 PM 2504 Views
That's Mesaana's purpose actually *NM* guttering flame - 06/11/2009 07:03:12 AM 1278 Views
Elaida, Formidable? Rurouni_Kenshin - 29/09/2009 11:48:04 PM 2365 Views
How do you figure? Fanatic-Templar - 30/09/2009 12:15:47 AM 1987 Views
Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? Rurouni_Kenshin - 30/09/2009 12:35:07 AM 2261 Views
Re: Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? Fanatic-Templar - 30/09/2009 02:29:37 AM 2121 Views
Broke the Black Ajah's hold on the Amyrlin seat??????? Rurouni_Kenshin - 30/09/2009 06:09:08 PM 2070 Views
Ignore *NM* Rurouni_Kenshin - 30/09/2009 06:20:12 PM 1245 Views
Oh yeah, and... Fanatic-Templar - 29/09/2009 04:22:57 AM 2386 Views
Egwene in this chapter... fionwe1987 - 29/09/2009 05:04:35 AM 2316 Views
Re: Egwene in this chapter... Fanatic-Templar - 29/09/2009 05:59:33 AM 2451 Views
Author thoughts - Audiobook versus reading ajfurst - 29/09/2009 05:30:39 AM 2216 Views
Yes, I've felt very much the same *NM* AgentOrange - 29/09/2009 12:52:52 PM 1407 Views
A lot of that is the narrator Isaac - 29/09/2009 04:36:47 PM 2252 Views
The Dark One's Touch Rurouni_Kenshin - 30/09/2009 06:21:24 PM 2337 Views
Good point! *NM* Etzel - 30/09/2009 06:26:51 PM 1321 Views
Re: The Dark One's Touch Sidious - 30/09/2009 06:44:53 PM 2085 Views
What about the person who has the ter'angreal dagger? Lanfear - 30/09/2009 07:11:18 PM 2045 Views
Re: What about the person who has the ter'angreal dagger? Rurouni_Kenshin - 30/09/2009 07:17:06 PM 2035 Views
The Irony of Elaida dadof5 - 30/09/2009 11:10:08 PM 2245 Views
LOL, I agree. Great Lord of Chaos - 01/10/2009 02:47:18 AM 2198 Views
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