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Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM

Oh, ok. I always assumed the levels were evenly distributed. Do you know if there exists a large collection of channeler strengths, enough to make a plot?

I guess making a comprehensive list would be like the mother of all those riddles where you get information like "The man in house number two drinks wine" and "The French officer is the neighbour of the man who has a dog".

I'm sure a full list of channelers exists in RJ's notes. I doubt we'll ever see it.

And I don't see why you would want to make a curve. Its not like what RJ said was a hypothesis that has to be proved. This is his world. His word is law.

If RJ said it, why are we discussing it? Do you have a link to the quote?

We're having this discussion because Shannow is a doofus.

Here are the quotes:
For Papazen, while I have spoken of souls being born with the ability to channel in response to questions, I think of it as being genetic also. In the Age of Legends, between 2 and 3% of people had some ability, following a bell curve distribution in strength. For over 3000 years, though, Aes Sedai have been removing men who actually learned to channel from the gene pool. They have been very efficient at this. As a result, the "present day" sees about 1% of the population who can learn to channel, with a much, much smaller percentage of that being born with the spark.

Regarding the percentage of women who could test for the shawl, it would be 62.5% of the bellcurve. I'll leave the maths to you for an idle moment. The question doesn't really apply to men, since the Black Tower accepts anyone who can learn to channel, but if the White Tower limits were applied, it would be roughly 65.4% of the bellcurve. Although, considering the effectiveness question, they should probably set it at the same 62.5%. Again, the maths are all yours. Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels. Remember to integrate this with what I've said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.


These two quotes tell us that there was a bell curve distribution in strength, not strength levels. And the way RJ referred to "the" bell curve in the second quote (which he had previously only used to describe the AoL channelers) makes it clear there's only one bell curve.

There's also this:

LUCKERS
Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).
MARIA SIMONS
Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.


Again, strength in the Power is the "it" in Maria's answer, and obviously most channelers would fall at the mid point.

But really, 67.5% of the channeling population strong enough to be Aes Sedai? Aren't they sending away a majority of the novices and accepted because they aren't strong enough? Or is it because the majority don't have "what it takes to be Aes Sedai"?

It is 62.5%. And the reason we don't see large numbers of Aes Sedai is that they haven't been actively recruiting, like the Black Tower. As we see with the 1000 novices who join the Rebels in response to Egwene's call (only about 200 of them are strong enough to be Aes Sedai), the subset of the population interested in becoming Aes Sedai is a bad sampling for the subset of the population that can become Aes Sedai. And the traditional Tower consisted mostly of women exclusively from the first type of sample.
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Sidious - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 2675 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* TheCrownless - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 650 Views
Androl did. *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 902 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? TheCrownless - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1003 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 944 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? nigelgoboom - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 671 Views
I think it's slightly off darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 971 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1169 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Sidious - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1006 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications DomA - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1057 Views
Travelling Tor - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1029 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine Sidious - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1024 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine Tor - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 943 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine DomA - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 889 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine Tor - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 981 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 574 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine DomA - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1076 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 787 Views
How strong Pevara is... fionwe1987 - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1100 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... DREWRULESWOT! - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 848 Views
Agreed Sidious - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 933 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? fionwe1987 - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 882 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve Sidious - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 933 Views
That was disproved long ago... fionwe1987 - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 887 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' DREWRULESWOT! - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 940 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. Great Lord of Chaos - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 893 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves DREWRULESWOT! - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 820 Views
Not true darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 820 Views
Not accurate darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 831 Views
The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 885 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 885 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 780 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 898 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 870 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 924 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 978 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 681 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 915 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 814 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... Tor - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 849 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 857 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: Tor - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 776 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Shannow - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 755 Views
Re: I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Tor - 28/10/2012 07:44:02 PM 746 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 750 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. DomA - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 936 Views
So what's your conclusion? Shannow - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 702 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 850 Views
Pretty much... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 943 Views
you do realize that is an impossible question to answer from the books right? darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 07:50:02 PM 820 Views
Excellent points... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 715 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 817 Views
You seem confused. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 738 Views
Re: You seem confused. Tor - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 750 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 732 Views
Re: You seem confused. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 856 Views
Re: You seem confused. Tor - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 848 Views
He drew graphs! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 746 Views
Re: He drew graphs! Tor - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 797 Views
Re: He drew graphs! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 771 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 777 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 804 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1151 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 819 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 890 Views
AS recruiting is minimal darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 811 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 789 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: Tor - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 759 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 755 Views
Re: Huh? Tor - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 771 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 770 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... Tor - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 805 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 809 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop Tor - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 829 Views
Geography alone can do this darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 781 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this Tor - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 762 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 726 Views
Here's why its not random... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 730 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... Tor - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 870 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 739 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 796 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 751 Views
Genetics plays a role darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 880 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 734 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... Tor - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 771 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 735 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? Tor - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 684 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 878 Views
Re: Nope... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 726 Views
Oh my... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 821 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! Tor - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 742 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 689 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results Tor - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 777 Views
LOL darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1306 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same Tor - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 755 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 783 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories Tor - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 765 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 836 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. Shannow - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 781 Views
Re: The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. Tor - 28/10/2012 07:27:26 PM 693 Views
There is not a single quote in the series that states Moiraine is less than half the strength darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 10:31:28 PM 748 Views
How is this fact? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 811 Views
Re: How is this fact? Sidious - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 782 Views
Not so darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 746 Views
Re: Not so Sidious - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 834 Views
Sure it is darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 709 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 746 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... Sidious - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 773 Views
Are you blind man? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 792 Views
Re: Are you blind man? Sidious - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 815 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 766 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 757 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! Tor - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 759 Views
Well the most obvious thing is that RJ was quoted on the subject any number of times darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 11:34:18 PM 794 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 905 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 892 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 566 Views
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